is the decline in roach linked to?

[fishy pete]

what about the story in a/t not so long ago regarding the amout of hormones /estrogens in our rivers,effecting the sexes of fish? i think roach where used as an example, and i believe the female contraceptive pill was blamed??

 

[Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA-Life Member)]

You have a point there Billy.

Hormones etc are organic compounds which can be removed from water, but at a cost.

To do so would involve the filtration of all treated sewage through huge towers of activated carbon.

Oh yes this would be fantastic.

But who would pay for it?

 

[fishy pete]

i cirtanly woulden't mind an increase in rod licence fees if AND ONLY if e.a. where to prove that the money was bieng put to the correct use i.e. chemically cleaning waste streams from sewage plants,..............''he says as he sits back and waits for world war three to erupt''

 

[fishy pete]

i am certain none of the tax payers money will be used, this county has far to many depts to pay of to other countries,and we are still funding this silly f*****g war in iraq .................

 

[Cakey]

what decline in roach,theres more and more by the minute here !

 

[Paul Christie 2]

Billy
That's exactly what I was thinking and was surprised no one had mentioned the contraceptive pill theory.

I knew it would be the women who had spoiled things for us again!

I also thought some research had show that roach were changing sex and were all female, affecting their reproduction.

Or perhaps the aluminum / alzheimers link is right and they've forgotten they were roach and tried getting jiggy with a pike.

 

[Jim Gibbinson]

There's little doubt in my mind that cormorants have played a significant part in the decline of roach.

One reason I'm convinced that cormorants are largely responsible is that some of the best roach fishing around nowadays is in crowded commercial carp puddles. These waters are so busy - a situation compounded by their relatively small size - that the presence of cormorants is discouraged. Other waters holding good numbers of roach are pits on which there is a lot of disturbance (sailing, water skiing, windsurfing etc.) - again, I suggest, creating an inhospitable environment for cormorants.

 

[Steve Spiller]

Very good point Jim.
It is the same around Bristol, the commercials do hold large roach.
But are they mopping up high protein pellets?
No cormorants and high protein food, I think.
I was amazed when I visited the Stour, I saw cormorants taking massive chub, up to four pound I would guess?
One angler even came running along the bank asking if the cormorant had gone past?
He said it had eaten a five pound chub, whatever!
I saw the bird come past, it wasn't flying!
Too heavy probably.
A phone call to the bailiff and it was sorted!
In my humble opinion, cormorants have got a lot to answer for, you don't see them rising with a two ounce roach in their beaks! It's usually a roach half to three quarters of a pound, the mature fish that should be continuing the life cycle.

 

[Big Swordsy :O)]

A Abstraction

B Bio-masse and bio diversity

C Cormorants

D Diffuse pollution

E Environmental change

F Failure to compete

 

[EC]

Good point Lee, there will be without doubt many factors combined, some of which will probably be very subtle, but the overall sum collectively is often to the detriment of one specific species!

Food chains are by their nature very cyclical, put man into that equation and the effects becomes far less predicatble!

 

[Alan Tyler]

Crayfish? A lot of the biomass which used to be tiny little shrimps and hoglice is now effoffsky great crays, which may be top nosh for chub, barbel and carp, but a bit beyond yer average redfin.

 

[fishy pete]

i should emagine the crayfish effect roach population in a lot of ways alan,I.E.
predation of eggs,juvanile fish,
predation of invertibrates roach feed on,
but as signal crays are not a nation wide problem yet i dont see that this could be only cause?
MAYBE its a combination of all afore mentioned points that are causing the problem, if so the future for roach does look bleek, i personaly can see the day coming when our rivers only contain 4 main species ,barbel carp chub and .....dare i say it CATFISH!!!!!!!! iknow its already happening down south, how long before a feww anglers decide to illigaly start introducing''kittens'' caught in fisherys where cats are sucsessfully breeding into our major waterways?
INFACT IT'S PROBABLY HAPPENING OUR HAPPENED ALREADY.
how will roach cope with another apex predator.
PRIME EXAMPLE:ZANDER!!

 

[Derek Lewis 5]

hi, mark what happened then to all of the big roach that where caught in the passion for angling video,by bob james on the hampshire avon,are they all dead now.regards derek.

 

[Mark Wintle]

Derek,

That catch came from part of the Longford estate. It is a part that (to the best of my knowledge) that even the syndicate members do not have access to, with only occasional exceptions.

But that catch was nearly 15 years ago(???)
and there has certainly been a significant decline in big roach on that part of the Avon generally despite the best efforts of people like Mike Trowbridge who was the keeper there for many years (now retired).

Mark

 

[Nigel Connor(ACA ,SAA)]

Mark,

I have been giving some thought to your article particularly in resoect of the Avon and the catches of big Roach in years gone by.

Do you think there may be a tendency to exagerate those catches?

I was looking at a brief biography in the foreward to the old Angling Times book "Coarse Fishing with the Experts" on Capt LA Parker the reknowed Avon Roacher and author of the "How to" book on the species.

I am at work so cant remeber the figure but he is said to have caught about 160 2lb Roach in his many years on the Avon.On a per season average that is not that many perhaps?It would be interesting to see his back up catches though perhaps.

 

[Mark Wintle]

Nigel,

In Parker's day there were vast quantities of roach in the Avon but fish over two pounds were comparatively rare in the area he fished, in as much that a huge catch such as the 100lb bag that Parker had actually had 7 over 2lbs. There were a lot of fish around 1-8 to 1-12. The figure you quote is close to the true figure. Remember that the big ones were often taken to be set-up! so didn't make 3lbs. I don't know the breakdown of his catches over the seasons; he was active on the Avon over 2 decades.

It is true that some totals of big roach from bygone days are exaggerated or the method of derivation suspect. this is the case with Owen Wentworth. Wentworth reported many of his big roach to the press, and two pounders are quite scarce. He admitted that he didn't know the total. Later when talking to a journalist it was calculated that as he'd been catching two pound roach for a long time and that 6 per season was not atypical so a total of 300 was concocted. I suspect the true total (but what?) was far less based on my own knowledge of local waters and from studying his books. Owen also had big catches on the Avon, best 97lb, but with only a couple of 2lb fish in each. Some of the catches from the Parlour/Royalty are mindblowing from pre day ticket days but accurate accounts very scarce.

 

[Mark Wintle]

Nigel,

worth trying to get hold of "This Fishing" by Parker - around ?20 or less via www.bookfinder.com

 

[owzatsteve]

crayfish is a big problem ,20 years ago on the ivel in beds ,no crayfish 40lb 0f roach no problem ,now loads of crayfish lucky if i catch half a dozen very small redfins ,rivers ruined and the,, AWA ,,has done buggerall ,its ok for the barbel and chub hunters, but not for us tiddler snatchers

 

[Matt Brown]

Crayfish aren't in all the rivers were Roach are in decline.

 

[Steve Spiller]

None on the lower BA, loads of cormorants though!
But I do accept the other factors are to blame as well, B C D and E all fit.