Commercial Fisheries Series

[Wolfman Woody]

A good idea starting this one Mark.

I love them, not all the time, but on some you do wonder what is going to take your bait next. Could be a large greedy roach or a 10lb carp goes streaming off with you tackle. It can be very exciting.

I just question the use of "Commercial" when people call these lakes. Many large carp lakes are nothing more than commercially run fisheries. There are also some stretches of river that are run on a commercial basis. It just seems to be a general derogatory term use for them.

Enjoy them, I say.

 

[Lord Paul]

Excellent idea Mark

I think that for the beginner or someone teaching a child how to fish these places are a must. They can learn the basic angling skill and catch plenty of small fish before moving on to the harder river venues. If it kids your teaching then catching 10 small roach and skimmers in a couple of hours will keep them interested and coming back time and again, rather than blanking on a trick stretch of river.

 

[BAZ (Angel of the North) aka Fester]

I agree with what Sheffield Lad has said, but for me personally that is where it ends.

I have tried fishing a comercial on only two occasions, each time I couldn't wait to get away from them as I found there is nothing natural about them including the stocking densities.
To catch a fat two pound roach is many an anglers dream including my own. But to catch one on one of these overstocked artificial fisheries is a big no no in my book, where is the pleasure in that? I would sooner blank on a natural type of water.
For one thing they need tighter regulations as per stocking densities, but to say fill them with fish and keep them keen and fighting for food is not the right way to go under any pretence of encouragement for new and old anglers alike.

I apologise if this reply is not in the taste that you wanted your article to be, but this is how I view comercials.
I honestly do look forward to reading the follow ups to this article, as I found this one very interesting.

Finally,
I did enjoy reading this excellently written article Mark and found it almost encourageing me to give the comercials another go. I think you could sell snow to the Eskimoes. But for the comercials that are availiable to me, I will be giveing them a wide berth until they in the very least think more of fish welfare and less of a money making machine.

 

[Frank "Chubber" Curtis]

With you all the way Baz.
An excellent article but give me a river or a nice, tree lined lake with a good selection of fish that have bred there naturally every time.

 

[Graham Whatmore]

I see nothing wrong in what Mark is attempting to do and he writes very informatively as always. Like it or not commercials are here to stay and the fact that more anglers use them than use rivers or canals is something we should all begin to accept. There are lots of inexperienced anglers on Fishingmagic that will learn a great deal from Marks articles on this series I bet and they will be better anglers because of it.

Just as anglers have a choice of what type of fishing they prefer to do so they have a choice as to where they do their fishing and though not a great frequenter of them myself I don't bar myself from fishing them. As for being overstocked and easy places to catch fish you try telling that to 30 very experienced anglers who failed to elicit a bite let alone a fish from Clattercote last year which is one of the so called overstocked commercials.

Don't like them? Then don't use them, just like Baz but doesn't but allow others to enjoy their choice as well.

I look forward to reading the rest of your articles Mark.

 

[Albert Watkinson 2]

this article will surely improve some of the young anglers and the 'ponds ' are here to stay.i have fished rivers for some thing like 60yrs and a mate asked me to go on a commercial this season.i am finding it increasingly harder to get down the bank now so i went.as stated secure parking and available toilets and washing ones hands.i have had many good days on them when the river was flooded.at my age i have found them a boon this season.the river will always be my first love and i shall go there when i can.yes mark i look forward to more of your articles .in passing i have stated that i would not fish them but needs must.
albert

 

[BAZ (Angel of the North) aka Fester]

You are being silly and personal now Graham.

I would agree that comercials are here to stay, and that in the future there will be even more of them as they are very popular.
And this is where the problem lies.

They are becomeing so popular that it is the comercials who are dictating what the fish farmers will breed, carp, carp, and more carp. And in turn this will affect every course fisherry in the country.

F1's are ten a penny, but you try and source a supply of good growing bream or tench, you will have a job on your hands, and I am not talking of the pastie sized bream that were shipped over from Ireland by the ton.

Before the comercials it was angling clubs themselves that dictated what species were required, and this was dictated to the clubs by the match anglers. These same match angler sare now dictating to the comercials.

Comercials have a massive responsibility to the rest of the anglers in this country, but they only think of themselves. What they do will inevetibally affect everybody else.

I am sure that Mark would give a honest report back to us if he were asked to do somekind of a covert operation for a month or so as to what the mortality rate was on these overstocked comercials.

Dead, dying, or diseased fish are removed from these waters without most anglers knowing anything about them.

That last paragraph has come from some top notch match anglers themselves, appart from what I have seen for myself.
This is just my opinion which I am entitled to, without fear of an unwaranted personal attack, but I am sure that many more would agree with me.

 

[Jeff Woodhouse]

Just a little correction there Mr Whatmore.

Clattercote is not an overstocked commercial fishery.

It's a day ticket water from BWB and I believe there's a club that also has use of it. It has been stocked, but the density is well withing tolerable limits. The mere fact that you can see many carp cruising around does not indicate that it is overstocked.

Heavily stocked is more than 2000 pounds per acre. Overstocked is 4000 pounds per acre - that's when they are climbing onto the bank and asking for air.

 

[BAZ (Angel of the North) aka Fester]

Plus stocking densities only go on the surface area irrespective of the depth. This is why I think comercials should have tighter restrictions put on them and checked properly.

 

[Albert Watkinson 2]

in my limited use of the commercial water i have to agree with baz.there should be more control.
albert

 

[Graham Whatmore]

I wasn't being personal or petty Baz, none of my comments were directed against you anyway other than to say you didn't use commercials because you didn't like them which is your choice, I didn't say you were wrong in your choice.

Woody, you are right of course but Clattercote would be perceived as an overstocked carp puddle because these types of fisheries tend to be grouped together, I personally think its a well thought out fishery as are lots of these wrongly perceived commercial fisheries.

 

[BAZ (Angel of the North) aka Fester]

Fair enough Graham mate, we both probably had our wires crossed.
If I get the time next week, I will go into my local E.A. office and ask about stocking densities, and what checks are done on comercials. 80lb bags of fish from some of these small comercials seems excesive to me, seeing that the ponds are no more than a couple of acres in size. Somebody isn't doing their job properly.
Anyhow, back to Marks article.

 

[Kevin Perkins 3]

The only 'commercial' water I have fished is Clattercote, and if that is an example of an overstocked puddle then I, along with many off this site are p*ss poor anglers because we can't catch bugger all out of it!

Having said that, I have been back in the warmer months and seen quite a few 'lads and dads' fishing there picking up the odd fish, which must be good for the young un's, and therefore the future of fishing.

Match fishing at a puddle stocked at some of the densities quoted does give cause for concern, where the motive is purely the 'sport' of amassing the heaviest weight of fish as opposed to fish welfare, and the quarry becomes just another commodity. Is that really the way way we should be going?

 

[Les Clark]

This is a honest question ,of you that have fished Bury hill waters ,Dorking ? how would you class it ?
I have never fished it and never wish too ,i had a look around a couple of years ago and was horrified by the amount of rods and poles fishing it ,rocky horror show or what !

 

[Steve Spiller]

Mark nice article mate, I'm looking forward to the rest.

I don't like commercials myself, but I agree they are the perfect place for youngsters to learn the basics. The trouble is many youngsters never leave the commercials, they never get to experience rivers. It's a crying shame, there is so much to see and catch in our rivers.
Each to his own though, if you're happy fishing commercials then good luck.

Baz check out the Southern match weights in AT, 80lb won't even make the frame.
180-200lb is common every week, the lakes can't be more than two acres. Each lake can accommodate 20 anglers, the top six weights are usually all over the ton.
I don't want to name the water, but I Will PM you if you would like to know.

 

[Neneman Nick]

i`ve just had a thought....with all the fuss and bother over commercial/puddle/featureless hole in the ground fisheries....call them what you want,how long before we see animal rights people or the anti fishing brigade demanding checks on some places.they could surely make accusations of deliberate overstocking and poor fish welfare etc...and acuse fishery owners of putting profit before the fishes well being.
if you think about it,any one can accuse a farmer of cruelty and not caring properly for his stock or a person could be reported and checked up for not looking after their horse or dogs etc.... so whats the to stop a fishery owner being reported,wether there are geniune causes for concerne or just maliciousness on the anti front.
are there certain rules laid down in stone and enforcable by the e.a as regards to fishery ownership and management???
if not...then there should be!!!

i personally wouldnt knock commercials as they are a perfect place for the young and old to learn the basics of fishing before progressing into whatever aspect of our sport.i myself will be taking my eldest lad to the odd commercial in the next few weeks so he can practice his casting,landing and un-hooking skills,so i can leve him in his own swim when i take him fishing.i will also make sure that he learns how to fish the rivers for chub etc...and realises that not everything in fishing is easy,sometimes you have to work for it but the rewards can sometimes be greater!!!

 

[Andy "the Dog" Nellist (SAA) (ACA)]

My understanding is that Clattercote had a large head of carp introduced to it in order to turn it into a carp match fishery. It has a high stock density which has increased because of the combination of heavy stocking of small carp and the introduction of large quantites of bait by the anglers fishing the water which led to the high growth rates amongst the carp. The stock was reduced a few years back when the carp had to be removed whist engineering work was carried out.

Before the carp were introduced it was a very different water.

 

[Mark Wintle]

Thanks for the comments. The series is intended to plug a huge gap in what is available on the site. It follows discussions with Graham as to its viability. There are tens of thousands of potential visitors that cannot find what THEY are looking for, simple instruction on fishing the type of water that they want to visit due to the convenience etc. Take a good look through the article archives; loads on barbel, chub, carp, etc but not nearly enough on pole fishing etc. I have no intention of trying to convert anyone, run exposes on stocking densities, or argue the rights and wrongs of how they are run. For every bad 'un, and a few do exist, there are loads of well run ones, and that includes thousands of club stillwaters that can be fished in a similar style to a commercial, hence the general appeal.

There are issues regarding stocking densities and fishery management but these articles, related articles that I hope others will contribute and forums attached to them are very much geared to the positive side of this type of fishing. I don't fish these waters a great deal myself; I will be doing so to get some pictures and to get a feel of what I am doing to make the writing easier.

Anyone who wants a purist website/forums can always join the other half a dozen on Waterlog but this site is seeking to substantially increase its popularity, something already evidenced by the tackle comparison reviews now being run, and other possibilities that I can't go into should materialise, and help also.

Must go, got another 13,000 words to write...

 

[BAZ (Angel of the North) aka Fester]

Can somebody tell me how big Clatercote is please?
I am begining to wonder if some people are getting confused between a comercial and a day ticket water.
To me a comercial is of about a couple of acres, maybe even 3 or 4. I thought Clatercote was a reservoir.

 

[BAZ (Angel of the North) aka Fester]

You need 80 lb to make the frame is what I should have said Steve.
But regardless of what weight is needed to frame, the issue is the size of the water for the amount of fish in it.