Steve Spiller
Well-known member
Hence why I was so tired!
;-)
;-)
E
ED (The ORIGINAL and REAL one)
Guest
"The point is this Steve. What if virtually every carp in every carp puddle in the country goes belly up in the next few weeks?
What then?"
The answer is they will just restock to the same densities again ......and again ........and again
What then?"
The answer is they will just restock to the same densities again ......and again ........and again
R
Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA-Life Member)
Guest
When will they ever learn hey?
C
Cakey
Guest
surely the stocks get wiped out too ??
R
Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA-Life Member)
Guest
You have a point Cakey, what if all the fish breeders are wiped out?
"Australian fish?"
"Australian fish?"
C
Cakey
Guest
I think lakes etc have to shut for 4 years before restocking
C
Cakey
Guest
I had two river carp yesterday and they were in superb condition so it looks like the Lea/Lee is ok at the mo
R
Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA-Life Member)
Guest
I don't think there will be too much of a problem where carp are stocked sensibly, say 15 big fish an acre, together with other species of course that are allowed to reach a natural balance. There are literally hundreds of gravel pits throughout the country where this is the case, and darned fine fisheries they are too.
In the Trent valley there are also many many huge gravel pits which never see an angler. On many of them, angling is not allowed.
I know what I would do to create my perfect still water fishery.
I would obtain the rights on a gravel pit of at least 50 acres. I would stock it carefully on advice from experts in fishery management with tench, roach, bream, rudd and just a few big carp. I would expect such species as perch and pike to get in naturally, as they do.
I would have the gravel pit landscaped and a number of bays and headlands created. Each bay would have a small self-catering chalet with bunk beds and fridge. In each bay there would also be a punt of sorts.
There would be a ring road, around the whole fishery.
The fishery would have a tackle shop, general store for food etc, bar, restuarant and conference facilities. The idea of the fishery would be its ability to produce naturally grown on specimen fish.
If I was worth a few millions, I would certainly want to create something like this.
In the Trent valley there are also many many huge gravel pits which never see an angler. On many of them, angling is not allowed.
I know what I would do to create my perfect still water fishery.
I would obtain the rights on a gravel pit of at least 50 acres. I would stock it carefully on advice from experts in fishery management with tench, roach, bream, rudd and just a few big carp. I would expect such species as perch and pike to get in naturally, as they do.
I would have the gravel pit landscaped and a number of bays and headlands created. Each bay would have a small self-catering chalet with bunk beds and fridge. In each bay there would also be a punt of sorts.
There would be a ring road, around the whole fishery.
The fishery would have a tackle shop, general store for food etc, bar, restuarant and conference facilities. The idea of the fishery would be its ability to produce naturally grown on specimen fish.
If I was worth a few millions, I would certainly want to create something like this.
Graham Whatmore
Senior Member
I don't for one minute think that Ron's scenario will happen in fact I would put money on it. Match fisheries suffer carp deaths virtually every year to a greater or lesser degree mostly caused throught spawning just as Earleswood Lakes which used to be stocked with bream and no carp until recently, always suffered massive kills during spawning. It was the bailiffs duty to go out every morning and clear out all the dead fish to keep the locals from claiming they were caused by cruel fishermen so theres nothing new here. It just gives those that dislike commercials another chance to air their biased views.
I rarely if ever fish commercial carp lakes these days by the way, Clattercote excepted but I certainly wouldn't want to spoil it for those that do.
I rarely if ever fish commercial carp lakes these days by the way, Clattercote excepted but I certainly wouldn't want to spoil it for those that do.
E
EC
Guest
Ron you say 15 big fish per acre, what would you class as a big fish a 20,30 or40?
At any of these stocking levels you would merely be creating the same situation that you are trying to avoid!
At any of these stocking levels you would merely be creating the same situation that you are trying to avoid!
R
Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA-Life Member)
Guest
The actual number of the fish should be dependant on bio-mass. The figure 15 is only an approximation. Most commercials are stocked at a much much greater concentration than 15 fish per acre.
I would classify any carp over 15lbs as big.
I would classify any carp over 15lbs as big.
Steve Spiller
Well-known member
What is the official recommended stocking level per acre Ron?
E
EC
Guest
Am just working on the broad figures as given by the EA as a stocking level Ron.
15x15LB carp per acre WOULD probably be to the detriment of other species!
15x15LB carp per acre WOULD probably be to the detriment of other species!
E
EC
Guest
Steve, EA recommended stock density for a recently created lake/gravel pit such as what Ron suggested is 150Kg/Ha.
Steve Spiller
Well-known member
Is that per acre Eddie?
R
Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA-Life Member)
Guest
I do not know what the official recommended maximum stocking density for carp is.
It seems from your comments that I am well over that amount, as 150kg/Ha is about 150lbs/acre. Fair enough, I think that my point about the stocking density of commercials being well over that recommended is valid.
Correct stocking would be no more than 10 fish averaging 15lbs each per acre
It seems from your comments that I am well over that amount, as 150kg/Ha is about 150lbs/acre. Fair enough, I think that my point about the stocking density of commercials being well over that recommended is valid.
Correct stocking would be no more than 10 fish averaging 15lbs each per acre
E
EC
Guest
You are right regarding commercials Ron, I know some go to 1000Lb per acre.
Am not trying to be pedantic or deliberately argumentative but my point was regarding your (albeit hypothetical)stocking of approx 15x15LB carp per acre into a mixed fishery!
If you think about it, thats 225LB of carp in 1 acre, that level is way too high in my opinion for what you would be trying to achieve.
Of course its all ifs and buts mate, just my opinion thats all, we'll talk in more depth when 1 of us gets the 6 numbers up!
Am not trying to be pedantic or deliberately argumentative but my point was regarding your (albeit hypothetical)stocking of approx 15x15LB carp per acre into a mixed fishery!
If you think about it, thats 225LB of carp in 1 acre, that level is way too high in my opinion for what you would be trying to achieve.
Of course its all ifs and buts mate, just my opinion thats all, we'll talk in more depth when 1 of us gets the 6 numbers up!
The KHV may not destroy as many commercials as we may fear.
See this excerpt from a University of Florida doc that implies that only carp and koi are susceptible, thus leaving the roach, bream, tench, chub and crucians for those of us who appreciate them!
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/pdffiles/VM/VM11300.pdf
"KHV disease has been diagnosed in koi and foodfish carp (Hedrick et al., 2000; OATA, 2001). Other related cyprinid species such as the common goldfish (Carassius auratus) and grass carp (Ctenopharyngodon idella) seem to be unaffected by KHV. As with other herpes viral infections, KHV is believed to remain in the infected fish for life, thus exposed or recovered fish should be considered as potential carriers of the virus (OATA, 2001). KHV disease may cause 80?100% mortality in affected populations, and fish seem most susceptible at water temperatures of 72?81?F (22?27?C) (OATA, 2001). This viral disease affects fish of various ages, but cohabitation studies show that fry have a greater susceptibility than mature fish (Perelberg et al., 2003). What Are the Signs of KHV? Clinical signs of KHV are often non-specific. Onset of mortality may occur very rapidly in affected populations, with deaths starting within 24?48 hours after the onset of clinical signs. In experimental studies, 82% of fish exposed to the virus at a water temperature of 22?C died within 15 days (Ronen et al., 2003). KHV infection may produce severe gill lesions and high mortality rates. In some cases, secondary bacterial and parasitic infections may be the most obvious problem, masking the damage caused by the primary viral infection. Behaviorally, affected fish often remain near the surface, swim lethargically, and may exhibit respiratory distress and uncoordinated swimming."
See this excerpt from a University of Florida doc that implies that only carp and koi are susceptible, thus leaving the roach, bream, tench, chub and crucians for those of us who appreciate them!
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/pdffiles/VM/VM11300.pdf
"KHV disease has been diagnosed in koi and foodfish carp (Hedrick et al., 2000; OATA, 2001). Other related cyprinid species such as the common goldfish (Carassius auratus) and grass carp (Ctenopharyngodon idella) seem to be unaffected by KHV. As with other herpes viral infections, KHV is believed to remain in the infected fish for life, thus exposed or recovered fish should be considered as potential carriers of the virus (OATA, 2001). KHV disease may cause 80?100% mortality in affected populations, and fish seem most susceptible at water temperatures of 72?81?F (22?27?C) (OATA, 2001). This viral disease affects fish of various ages, but cohabitation studies show that fry have a greater susceptibility than mature fish (Perelberg et al., 2003). What Are the Signs of KHV? Clinical signs of KHV are often non-specific. Onset of mortality may occur very rapidly in affected populations, with deaths starting within 24?48 hours after the onset of clinical signs. In experimental studies, 82% of fish exposed to the virus at a water temperature of 22?C died within 15 days (Ronen et al., 2003). KHV infection may produce severe gill lesions and high mortality rates. In some cases, secondary bacterial and parasitic infections may be the most obvious problem, masking the damage caused by the primary viral infection. Behaviorally, affected fish often remain near the surface, swim lethargically, and may exhibit respiratory distress and uncoordinated swimming."
R
Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA-Life Member)
Guest
Thanks for your input Colin.
If this is the case then all commercial waters can get it for me, as long as it does not affect indigenous species.
I would hate to see the bigger British sourced specimen carp get it also.
The truth of the matter is that there are too many carp in this country, probably several millions too many and perhaps this is a blessing in disguise and a warning to fishery managers to stop this totally obscene overstocking of small ponds with carp.
I visited a commercial carp fishery in Cambridgshire the other day. Not to fish you understand, just to have a look. In all two lakes the aerators were bubbling away. I asked one of the anglers why the aerators were switched on?
He told me that if they were not, all the fish would die!!
Now doesn't that tell you a story?
Thousands of fish being kept in a few acres of muddy water in totally unnatural conditions to please a few who want to yank them out on bungee elastic!
Come on chaps, this is not the future of angling. If I was confined to fishing in waters like this for the rest of my life I would give up the sport.
If this is the case then all commercial waters can get it for me, as long as it does not affect indigenous species.
I would hate to see the bigger British sourced specimen carp get it also.
The truth of the matter is that there are too many carp in this country, probably several millions too many and perhaps this is a blessing in disguise and a warning to fishery managers to stop this totally obscene overstocking of small ponds with carp.
I visited a commercial carp fishery in Cambridgshire the other day. Not to fish you understand, just to have a look. In all two lakes the aerators were bubbling away. I asked one of the anglers why the aerators were switched on?
He told me that if they were not, all the fish would die!!
Now doesn't that tell you a story?
Thousands of fish being kept in a few acres of muddy water in totally unnatural conditions to please a few who want to yank them out on bungee elastic!
Come on chaps, this is not the future of angling. If I was confined to fishing in waters like this for the rest of my life I would give up the sport.
Paul Morley
Well-known member
Whenever i hear the 'each to his own' point I cringe. Consumer demand does not drive this leisure activity, it is a 'construct' of the industry that feeds upon it. The engineering of 'freedom to choose'- in supermarkets, fast food, premier league football etc etc is key to their financial gain. Anglers are a vulnerable market, easy to manipulate. Nature (ie fish) is the casualty here, along with the wallets of anglers. 'Commercial' angling is accountable for much of angling's excesses as Ron says, I would urge anglers to think hard about what they want to contribute to their sport.