Commercial Coarse Fisheries

[Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA-Life Member)]

In the last issue of Coarse Fisherman, Graham Marsden, in his regular column - "Marsden's Musings", penned a few of the best words I have ever read describing the terrible state of many commercial fisheries.

Let me quote a few passages from this article:

"Although I very rarely fish commercial fisheries, it is usually when I am teaching a youngster the mechanics of fishing, rather than the hunting/spiritual aspect. I do recognise the obscenity of them for an angler who appreciates delving into the mysteries of fish behavior."

And it is fish behavior in the wild that Graham is writing about of course, not fish - F1 carp in particular, that are so heavily stocked into waters that could never support such populations if it was not for anglers baits.

Des Taylor hit the nail on the head recently when he stated that in some commercial fisheries, the carp eat their own faeces!

Graham goes on:

"The overstocking concept serves two purposes; providing more than enough fish per angler, and ensuring that the fish are always hungry which in turn leads anglers enjoying an abundance of bites and fish captures that would not often be possible in a fishery left to nature, or managed in a more natural way."

The italics are mine.

Might I add at this stage that after over half a century of angling, my own true enjoyment in fishing is outwitting a wild creature in its natural element. I wouldn't expect to be succesful at ever visit, and if I did I would get bored very quickly indeed.

But yet there seem to be many thousands of anglers who sit in demented fashion by un-natural pools, pulling out thousand of tonnes of carp species that are not even wild, nor natural.

Graham continues:

"It's amusing to read articles describing fish that are feeding off bottom, on the bottom, on the drop etc, when in a commercial you can make them free feed in whatever area you want them to feed, and to accept whatever bait you want them to have."

And finally:

"Long may the mysteries of fishing continue, and long may the debates between thinking anglers stay passionate and deep and sincere."

Well written Graham. One of the best articles I have read about the way that angling is degenerating, or seems to be.

Are most commercial fisheries obscene?

I think they are.

Do you?

 

[BAZ (Angel of the North) aka Fester]

Not only an obscenity, they are also a drain on any fishing club in the country. The same people that frequent these pleasure puddles will be the first to start crying when the clubs are closed down. The very clubs that gave them fishing in the frst place.

 

[BAZ (Angel of the North) aka Fester]

What is even more amazing is the fact that a club ticket for a whole year is far cheaper than visiting a comercial for 12 months. And you get more choice of venue for your money.

Support the clubs or you might live to regret it.

 

[Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA-Life Member)]

Spot on Baz!!

 

[Peter Bishop]

Though I dont disagree entirely with you on this Ron I think your views on this subject are well known and it is therefore begining to feel like you are playing the same tired old record again and again. There are many anglers who read and post upon this site who use commercially run fisheries to one extent or another. Why allienate them by constantly deriding those who patronise such waters? Whether you like it or not thousands fish these types of water every weekend, so they appeal to a lot of people. Perhaps we should just live and let live eh?

 

[Bully]

No.

Until of course someone can come up with a definition of a "Commercial Fishery".

So, before we start slinging mud around, with frankly some absurd accusations, lets have a definition of a "Commercial Fishery".

The reason I ask is that I know many clubs, 10 in my locality, who are "clubs" but may be accused of propagating similar standards as mentioned above....

As such, is a "Commercial Fishery" one that does not have a membership? If so I have fished many that are run really well.

Is a "Commercial Fishery" one that stocks a small pond chock full of carp? Then why not have a go at clubs who do the same thing?

And if a "Commercial Fishery" offers fishing that does not harm the fish, who are we to pour scorn on those who enjoy such fishing?

As for "Des Taylor hit the nail on the head recently when he stated that in some commercial fisheries, the carp eat their own faeces!" mmmmm lets see the footage of that one.

I haven't seen Graham's article, so I make no judgment on its validity or otherwise, I just think we need a better definition of what is good and bad, and what is factual. If it is purely based on personal preferences (assuming all aspects of a fishery are ok) then who are we to criticize?

 

[Ian Cloke]

Commercial fisheries are good news for many disabled anglers, as they can:- park at their peg, feel safe, actually catch a few fish, get bait from most of them etc...... So I think they aren't all bad.

 

[Matt Brown]

I think some are good and fill a need. Some are holes in the ground full of starving fish. Some are well run and quite pretty.

 

[Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA-Life Member)]

The last thing I want to do is alienate other anglers or deride all commercial fisheries. You will notice Peter that that I didn't say all.

I have fished some excellent commercial fisheries which are not overstocked, the fish in them have been superb specimens, and most of all, these fisheries have demanded high skills of anglers if they are to succeed whilst fishing them.

To give you an idea of what I mean, I used to fish a very prolific series of gravel pits near Oxford where over 3 years I caught lots of superb roach, tench, bream and perch. But to tell the truth, the first session I had on these waters I didn't get a bite. It took me 3 months of hard work before I started catching the fish I was after.

And when I did catch my first decent fish I was over the moon.

Maybe I'm different. If fishing is easy I get bored darned quick because then the physical act of pulling fish to the bank becomes a chore. And it's time to move onto fresh pastures to find another challenge.

But I can't for the life of me see how any angler can enjoy pulling out fish after fish who's desire to eat the bait and groundbait of anglers overcomes the natural caution such fish have in a truly wild water.

It seems all wrong to me. Graham is right in calling such waters obscene.

 

[Woodys angle]

I dislike anyone banding together many similar ventures (and even personalities) and giving them all a bad name because of the odd bad one or two.

Anyway, Ron's just another tight-a***d Yorkie who just doesn't want to pay for a day ticket.


)

 

[Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA-Life Member)]

Jeff, If you could find me a water where I might get the chance of catching a 2 or 3 pound rudd, I would pay ?50 for a day ticket!

 

[john ledger]

Swim wild swim free springs to mind and if i never fish a commercial again i will not shed a tear,most anglers on commercials are on first name terms with the fish and merit neither reputation or media coverage.
You may have already guessed i dont like them

 

[Peter Bishop]

Some people like the challenge of the hunt and the harder the chase the more satisfying the end result. Others on the other hand dont have the time to devote and want, what I believe you have described, as a "quick fix". in other words they want to catch some fish without too much effort, in a clean, safe environment, with easy access and no committment to do a 'work party',so are prepared to pay ?5-7 a day for the pleasure.
Like it or not there are other ways to enjoy your fishing apart from the road you chose Ron, and it keeps the fishing trade afloat along the way. In politics it is always wise to listen to the other mans point of view for you create enemies otherwise. You may not agree with an opinion but one should always respect their right to live their lives the way they wish ( and that means to visit a commercial fishery if they choose without you and Mr Marzdin having a pop from your pulpit!)
Intolerance is the biggest enemy of a civilised society.
Right, got that rant off my chest! Goodnight.

 

[Andrew Turton]

I haven't fished a 'comercial fishery' as far as I know! But the club I belong too has a wide range of waters, some very wild and untampered with and one or two carefully cultivated and stocked sensibly to provide a good chance of catching a decent stamp of fish in a secure and pleasant environment. I like to fish the quieter and more rewarding wilder fisheries, but sometimes its nice to go and have a bit of an easier time. I hope this doesn't make me a poor angler but I don't think I am alone in this approach. Any business that is run to the detriment of it's stock is obviously wrong, however you can't tar all commercials with that brush, and it's a bit aloof to look down on someone who would like a more accessable fishery. Each to there own as long as no fish are being mistreated. Tight lines one and all.

 

[Terry D]

There can be a world of difference between a well run commercial fishery with a nice broad spectrum of fish species where you have to fish for your bites, and the one we all love to hate - the overstocked carp puddle. I regularly fish the former, where you don't know what your next fish will be. It could ba a big perch or crucian, tench, bream or roach or even a carp if I dare mention it. Nevertheless, it is a well run balanced fishery and a pleasure to fish.
I am also a member of a club which has a match lake with plenty of carp in it. Although there are a few decent roach in there, it is a pain in the neck getting them going just for the carp to move in and spoil the fishing. I really can't go 'pleasure' fishing there any more.
Can someone up there make the final definition of what then is a "commercial fishery", I seriously doubt it.

 

[Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA-Life Member)]

"Any business that is run to the detriment of it's stock is obviously wrong, however you can't tar all commercials with that brush."

Those are the two points I think myself, and Graham too are trying to get across.

Of course I, and I know Graham would like more accessable fisheries. Walking with large amounts of gear does get me down these days. And there is nothing wrong with having a shop or cafe on the fishery either, and secure parking, and toilets, and all those other things.

But for goodness sake let's have waters that are sensibly stocked where the fish do not have to rely on angler's baits to survive.

There are many waters that are run on these lines. I could name dozens of them. My friends in the DVSG have fished a few of them lately and caught some excellent tench, bream and crucians this season.

But the waters have not been easy.

I know an old gravel pit not far from me run on commercial lines. The water contains big roach, nice tench a few good crucians and a few very big perch. The fishing in the water gives anglers the chance of catching small roach if they just want bites, plus the challenge of being able to target big fish if they want.

This is the sort of commercial water I would like to see more of.

 

[Graham Whatmore]

It is wrong to think that clubs are collapsing because of commercial waters, most angling clubs are pub and club orientated and don't possess any waters at all and commercial waters are the only reason most exist at all.

I was fishing with a friend of mine last week who runs an angling club in Redditch and he said he is constantly being moaned at because he books two or three river venues through the BAA where they have a long drive and long walks and the result is a few ounces of fish for the winner. They want pools, not holes in the ground either but properly run fisheries where they can can catch a few fish in pleasant surroundings. He said they told him if they want to fish rivers they will do it in their own time and in places of their choice but they are not interested in match fishing on rivers any longer. I have some sympathy with this view as well, mainly because it is true.

It could be the case that you lot up north have a surfeit of poorly run fisheries I don't know, but that is certainly not the case in the Midlands where there are some really pleasant, landscaped fisheries where the fish don't queue up to be caught. Jim, the friend in question, is an out and out river fisherman who likes fishing matches but he also said that they fish some really nice pools where the target fish aren't carp at all but bream and tench with the occasional roach and he doesn't mind that. He draws the line at holes in the ground stuffed solid with deformed carp but like he said most of those have disappeared through either lack of use or re-landscaping and restocking.

 

[BAZ (Angel of the North) aka Fester]

most angling clubs are pub and club orientated and don't possess any waters at all

All I can say Graham is that you can't have many good clubs in your area. I think this is where we differ and the confusement comes in where we both fish.

I would agree that we seem to have an abundance of poorly run comercials in the North though.

 

[Claudia Crowther]

Just stumbled over this thread and would like to put my opinion (as a novice) to it.

I started fishing a couple of months ago and used (still do on the occassion)a commercial fishery.
I took my time to research fisheries in the area, as I wanted to pick a well looked after one.(concerning the fish, not the outlay)
Found a very good one, well looked after fish,not overloaded swims and a good variety of course fish.

A commercial fishery helped me to get started to learn about 'how to fish, fish behaviour and feeding habbits.
The other anglers on the fishery were very helpful to lend a helping hand and advice.

To top it up I acctually caught a few fish which again gave a confident boost.

I still use the same fishery on occassion but also turned to river, canal and shore fishing.

I don't think commercial fisheries are a bad thing, if looked after properly.

I personaly on a species hunt most of the time now, rather than bagging 100lbs.

So what I'm saying is, everyone to their liking but check out the fisheries you want to use, as i came across a few bad ones too, where the fish were not looked after (fed) or the swim was overcrowded.

 

[Graham Whatmore]

The trouble with this thread Ron is that there is nothing new here, same old people defending with same old people attacking and all saying the same things they have said many times on here before, including me.

Baz, we have the biggest angling club in Bitain in the Midlands, the BAA, which is mainly river and canal orientated however, there are many others too numerous to mention, some that own river stretches and some that now, sadly, don't having sold them off for financial reasons.

The Midlands is, and always was, the richest area in the country for diversity of river fishing, including the Trent, Severn, Avon, Wye and many many more more. Thats not not all we have either, we have some really good pools, as good as anywhere in the country and on top of those we have match fisheries also too numerous to mention. The Midlands is good news for anglers for no other reason than its geographical position.