Unattended Rods

[The bad one]

"Rod / Rods cast, mate walks to the next swim and starts to chat with his mate. OK as long as not too far and can hear alarms."

@ Mr bad one, in no way did I mean 100+ yrs'd away! As I stated "not too far" sorry I do not carry a tape measure whilst fishing, and I do not need a slap on the hand fom you, Oh almighty Bailiff!

Mr Noknot are you called Peter Jacobs? As it was his quote about "common sense" I replied to in the second instance.

Yours was the first instance, and I gave you a true story and one of the worst abuses I ever come across in 10 years of Bailiffing.


Helps if you read the quote first before diving in head first.
Same applies to reading cards I suppose

Steph If you talk to any EA Fisheries Officer they'll tell you their brief is 5 m. The reason it's ambiguous is because when the Nt By-laws were reviewed about 8 years ago, they were going to make it 2 m and unambiguous. It was pointed out to them by the SAA that would impinge on some legitimate practices. Piker in boats was one of them. And that many clubs also had their own rules covering it. So they accepted the comments and representations made to them by the SAA and asked them to come up with a form of words for the by-law.
What you've read is what the SAA recommended to them.

So be careful what you wish for

 

[watatoad]

For me one rod is what I am happy with while others are happy with more, the majority of us are adult enough to know what suits each of us is often very different. Just as we all realise and know that we are responsible for our tackle and how we fish, its just the way it is and we are all individuals and we are all right and we are all wrong.

 

[Simon K]

The worst case I came across when I was bailiffing; arriving at a swim on the river to see, on the platform, 2 empty chairs, a couple of bags of gear, 2 rods, one float, one leger, cast out and left and no-one around.

I waited approximately 15 minutes and finally a van rolled up, a youngish bloke, a woman and a young child got out. I let him wind his rods in, finding a gudgeon attached to the leger rod. Before flashing my bailiff card I asked him where he'd been.
"Oh, I had to take my lad to the toilet".
The toilet block being about half a mile away.

"And you didn't bother to either wind your rods in or leave one of you to sit by them? You both had to go and take your kid in the truck? What if a barbel or chub had taken a bait, run into a snag and tethered itself, probably dragging your rod(s) in with it?

I tore his ticket in half, asked him to pack up and leave the fishery immediately and told him he wouldn't be allowed back on.

Unbelievably brainless.

I'm very glad it's the only time I've seen it happen on a river.

 

[watatoad]

The worst case I came across when I was bailiffing; arriving at a swim on the river to see, on the platform, 2 empty chairs, a couple of bags of gear, 2 rods, one float, one leger, cast out and left and no-one around.

I waited approximately 15 minutes and finally a van rolled up, a youngish bloke, a woman and a young child got out. I let him wind his rods in, finding a gudgeon attached to the leger rod. Before flashing my bailiff card I asked him where he'd been.
"Oh, I had to take my lad to the toilet".
The toilet block being about half a mile away.

"And you didn't bother to either wind your rods in or leave one of you to sit by them? You both had to go and take your kid in the truck? What if a barbel or chub had taken a bait, run into a snag and tethered itself, probably dragging your rod(s) in with it?

I tore his ticket in half, asked him to pack up and leave the fishery immediately and told him he wouldn't be allowed back on.

Unbelievably brainless.

I'm very glad it's the only time I've seen it happen on a river.

I'm just glad you arrived at the scene before there was a problem, what a wally.

 

[904_cannon]

I had a hobble round my club so called 'specimen water' last week and found two rods out both sat in pods with alarms set.

No sign of any angler so I gave both lines a few sharp pulls, several minutes later two very excited and breathless young lads came a running. Still unaware that I'd been pulling their string they picked up their rods expecting a fish to be on.
I gave them a strong warning never to leave the rods unattended again, how they put the fish at risk, and said that they were lucky that I was not an EA fisheries bailiff doing the checking. We had a few cheery words and I doubt/hope they will never leave their rods unattended again.

I also found a load of rubbish tied up in a plastic bag. The usual stuff, take-away boxes, boilie packets, drinks bottles etc, etc AND the stupid $ugger had also left the take take-away order with his mobile telephone number for the delivery driver to call when at the fishery gate. Stupid boy, well and truly hooked

From the EA North East/Yorkshire abbreviated byelaw's

Unattended Rods: It is unlawful to leave a rod and line in the water which is unattended or over which control can not be effected.

 

[guest61]

What is the risk to the fish?

I've stated that I'm against sleeping and 'fishing' - one never knows what snags are under water and the hooked fish on the receiving end of your rig could easily make it into a snag before you wriggle out of a sleeping bag, to fully enjoy the thrill of the 'capture' on your anti-eject, self hooking 'bolt' rig.

That's just my view, on the Carp forum of our club site, occasionally a debate will rage about tethered fish and safe vs 'dangerous' rigs and how precious our fish stocks are etc.

I just don't think sleeping and fishing go together - period.

Mark

 

[Poshpaul (Angling Trust and PaSC)]

I'm in the same club as Bad One and Mark. I waited 3 years to gain membership (I gather the current list is about 4.5 years now). There is an induction night, you are told the rules, and that the bailiffs enforce them. Might appear draconian but it's the system that has made it the one of the largest clubs in GB...with a huge range of waters both in type and geographical. You've got to be a bit puddled to put that at risk!!! (Just now watch me get done for forgetting me card !!)mg:

Surely it's a matter of common sense and taking the attitude that the fish's welfare is always paramount.

 

[Bob Hornegold]

Is this Thread still going on ?

The vast majority of Carp anglers fish more that one rod and sleep near enough to the rods to have no trouble at all !!

Which ever way you like to spin it, it's the Norm in modern Carp Fishing and is praticed by lots of specimen Angler targeting other species.

I belong to lots of very Big Clubs, most are controlled by Match/Pleasure Anglers, who don't have a clue about Fish Welfare, but bang on about Night Fishing and using more than one rod.

But they don't mind taking the Carpers Money, who keep said clubs going and have very little comprehension of what modern Carp fishing is about !!

As long as you fish within Club rules and the EA bylaws , look after your fish and leave the fishery in pretine condition, what more can be expected ?

Other than people on internet sites who have never fished in the above way, preaching about nothing they have actually tried and been successful at ?

Bob

 

[steph mckenzie]

Is this Thread still going on ?

Yep it's still going on <smiles> and it's been rather informative too.

 

[guest61]

Other than people on internet sites who have never fished in the above way, preaching about nothing they have actually tried and been successful at ?

Hi Bob

I'm in agreement with some of what you say in this last post but could you clarify.

'The above way' - what's that? - If its sleeping while you have baited rods in the water its still sleeping.

When has expressing an opinion such as 'I've stated that I'm against sleeping and 'fishing'' turned into peaching? Its merely an opinion.

Just because there's a large number of Carp / Specimen anglers who are successful at catching fish whist sleeping with baited rods out in the water doesn't mean that its for me - so I don't do it.

I could understand fishing overnight if it were fishing into darkness, pulling the rods in getting some sleep before fishing again - sleep is one thing and fishing is another, and if you are sleeping you are not in control of your rods. Irrespective of club rules or EA by-laws.

Mark

 

[Simon K]

What is the risk to the fish?

I've stated that I'm against sleeping and 'fishing' - one never knows what snags are under water and the hooked fish on the receiving end of your rig could easily make it into a snag before you wriggle out of a sleeping bag, to fully enjoy the thrill of the 'capture' on your anti-eject, self hooking 'bolt' rig.

That's just my view, on the Carp forum of our club site, occasionally a debate will rage about tethered fish and safe vs 'dangerous' rigs and how precious our fish stocks are etc.

I just don't think sleeping and fishing go together - period.

Mark

Mark, whether you like it or not, your post reeks of contempt for anything remotely connected to Modern Carp Fishing and much of Modern Specimen Fishing too.
Using the disclaimer of "that's just my view" doesn't confer immunity from criticism of your lack of experience in fishing this way. There are plenty of good practitioners of this method under the conditions we're talking about, just as there are always poor ones.
There is no aspect of fishing that you cannot apply this good v bad angler split to.

You will have to make allowance for the fact that it is an accepted and proven method which, so far, you have undertaken not to try.

Any decent carper/specimen angler will be set up to be on his rods within 3 to 4 seconds of the buzzer starting to sound. I know, I've timed it.
Likewise, they will be aware of how far the nearest snag(s) are and will have planned accordingly. There are ways of tightening the baitrunner up and using snag-bars to stop fish running further than you wish.

To suggest that everyone bivvying up with bolt-rigs is fishing an unplumbed, unkown swim and snag-fishing with an average "wake-up" time measured in minutes, as you clearly are, I find quite reprehensible and not a little patronising toward the many responsible, capable carp/speci anglers out there.

If you personally don't feel comfortable attempting it, good for you for recognising your limits, no-one minds, but don't tar all with the same brush.

 

[chav professor]

All good practice described above - in-deed, I occasionally do a bit myself.

what concerns me and is the perception given regarding this branch of the sport is that a sizable minority of anglers are not so 'attendant'. Blokes choking to death on a bong at 3am does not bode well for when the 'take' comes only for them to be in a dopy coma. Same with alcohol.

One of the kids i teach, his dad bought him some remote (whatever) alarms for when they fished a lake in france. He caught his biggest fish of the trip whilst eating breakfast in the cafe!mg:

 

[noknot]

Top Post Simon!
I've never sleep well when night fishing and wake up many times through the night as I am waiting for the take to happen, and if asleep I wake up after just one beep, and I mean fully awake! After all thats why I'm there.....

 

[guest61]

To suggest that everyone bivvying up with bolt-rigs is fishing an unplumbed, unkown swim and snag-fishing with an average "wake-up" time measured in minutes, as you clearly are, I find quite reprehensible and not a little patronising toward the many responsible, capable carp/speci anglers out there.

Simon

I'm delighted that you are 'defending' what you choose to do.

Right now I have to go to work - if I get chance I'll expand on this later.

Mark

 

[chav professor]

Top Post Simon!
I've never sleep well when night fishing and wake up many times through the night as I am waiting for the take to happen, and if asleep I wake up after just one beep, and I mean fully awake! After all thats why I'm there.....

Exactly! I love that expectancy - often get little blips all night probably liners from bream - but each blip is where you drop a heart beat and the muscles tense to jump out of the allready open sack. Often one eye open and knackered by morning. I have probably rebaited and released half a dozen bream, drunk 10 cups of tea, smoked myself stupid anyway. (why did I give up!! best cigerettes in the world those ones....)

I often bait up, leave the swim to develop with no lines in the water, catch up with sleep and then its rods on spots in anticipation for a night time/early morning of activity.....

But you can't help but be annowed when someone is so p!ssed that geese have been playing in his lines, alarms blipping away constantl as they eat all the spilt bait. Fortunately somene had the sense to reel his rods in.

 

[steph mckenzie]

See all very good points indeed ..... not as boring or uninformative a topic as perhaps some first perceived.

Still i do admit it is very much "Us versus Them" discussion, lets just try to remember at the end of the day we all do our bit for fishing, it may just differs from your own.

Personally i don't see how you can be asleep and fishing at the same time, but hey, there are a lot of things about fishing i don't get, like collecting old tackle, reading fishing books <i get bored after a while> that is what makes us the individuals that we are.

 

[Simon K]

All good practice described above - in-deed, I occasionally do a bit myself.

what concerns me and is the perception given regarding this branch of the sport is that a sizable minority of anglers are not so 'attendant'. Blokes choking to death on a bong at 3am does not bode well for when the 'take' comes only for them to be in a dopy coma. Same with alcohol.

One of the kids i teach, his dad bought him some remote (whatever) alarms for when they fished a lake in france. He caught his biggest fish of the trip whilst eating breakfast in the cafe!mg:

Quite right and no-one would defend the abuse of drugs or alchohol while fishing, regrdless of whether it's a day-angler or an overnighter. I'm sure we've all seen plenty of both.


And Mark, I'm not defending anything, I'm attacking false syllogisms such as:

All carp anglers do overnights.
All lakes have snags.
Therefore all sleeping carp anglers are irresponsibly snag-fishing.


Etc.etc.

it's no basis for an "opinion".

 

[guest61]

And Mark, I'm not defending anything, I'm attacking false syllogisms such as:

All carp anglers do overnights.
All lakes have snags.
Therefore all sleeping carp anglers are irresponsibly snag-fishing.


Etc.etc.

it's no basis for an "opinion".

Simon

At this stage in a thread 'tradition' is that we all agree to differ so here's my parting shot.

The post is about 'Unattended Rods'. Everyone here agrees that they're a bad thing. Why are they a bad thing? - because should you get a bite, a fish could hit a snag before you can exercise control over your rods - and that's bad for fish.

If you sleep while fishing you can't be in control of your rods.

Now somewhere along the line you have made the assumption that I'm aiming all of my 'opinion' at Carp / Specimen anglers - and I'm not, I fish for Carp but with floats and running rigs in rivers and canals. Worse still is your delusion that I've posted words which I haven't actually posted, to construct your argument.

For instance - To suggest that everyone bivvying up with bolt-rigs is fishing an unplumbed, unkown swim and snag-fishing with an average "wake-up" time measured in minutes, as you clearly are, I find quite reprehensible and not a little patronising toward the many responsible, capable carp/speci anglers out there. These are your words not mine - and they don't represent what I think - there are other examples in the same post, but even I'm bored.

Even the Chav Professor was driven to an emoticon with his tale of the boy in France 'catching' (some might say trapping) a Carp whilst eating his breakfast.

Back to the Post - general agreement then that 'Unattended Rods' are bad. But the 'Elephant in the room' that no one likes to talk about is actually there's a lot of people who like night fishing and its different because you're not really asleep you're just dozing off - a bit.

I hope you don't apply the same theory to driving a car.

Hi Noknot! Great to hear from you again.

Mark

 

[Bob Hornegold]

If you sleep while fishing you can't be in control of your rods.



Mark[/QUOTE]

Mark,

As you know from my previous posts, I think you statement above is utter rubbish and it is obivious that we will never agree.

Having fished some of the most famous Carp Lakes in this country for over 40 years, there has at times been instances of bad practice, but no more so at Night, than in Daytime.

The glorifications given to drinking by some well known Modern Carp Anglers is deplorable, but no more than seeing well known Barbel Anglers leaving their rods unattended and having a chat two swims away ?

Night fishing in it's modern form has been with us for more years than I care to remember, I always fish on top of my rods and fish with tight baitrunners.

I would never fish to snags at night, even if I was locked and knew the fish would kite away from the snags.

It's just known as good practice !!

As an area bailiff for a big fishing organisation, I had occasion to do many bailiff rounds, including bailiffing the bailiffs and saw all sorts of stupid things done by many different types of anglers.

Being away from your rods, talking to your mate in the next swim was top of my list and I saw it many times both on Still waters and Running water.

So in my book, a good angler who knows his trade can just as effectively fish at night, as he can in daylight and it is unrealistic to expect any long term Carp angler on a difficult water to be awake all the time.

You say that unattended, I say it is not, as you are by the side of your rods (or you should be) it's a difference of opinion !!

Bob

 

[Simon K]

Simon

At this stage in a thread 'tradition' is that we all agree to differ so here's my parting shot.

The post is about 'Unattended Rods'. Everyone here agrees that they're a bad thing. Why are they a bad thing? - because should you get a bite, a fish could hit a snag before you can exercise control over your rods - and that's bad for fish.

If you sleep while fishing you can't be in control of your rods.


You seem to have deliberately ignored my post. A "sleeping" angler can be in control of his rods in much the same time as a waking one, with no risk to fish, if he has prepared his baiting spots and set-up responsibly. There is no difference between this and a day-time angler "snoozing", in fact it's more likely that a day angler will be snag-fishing. Not all carpers are noddies, not all Specimen Anglers are that mercenary. The last thing any decent angler wants in the middle of the night is to lose a fish in a snag before he's even picked up the rod, then have to tie a new rig and re-cast with no distance marker on the line to a pre-baited spot. Fail to prepare, prepare to fail, as the saying goes.

Now somewhere along the line you have made the assumption that I'm aiming all of my 'opinion' at Carp / Specimen anglers - and I'm not, I fish for Carp but with floats and running rigs in rivers and canals. Worse still is your delusion that I've posted words which I haven't actually posted, to construct your argument.


I refer to my accentuated quote of your previous post. Your language there and your reference above shows your preferred methods are obviously at odds with the majority of modern carpers whom you appear to me to be looking down your nose to. Your choice of language says a thousand words to me.

For instance - To suggest that everyone bivvying up with bolt-rigs is fishing an unplumbed, unkown swim and snag-fishing with an average "wake-up" time measured in minutes, as you clearly are, I find quite reprehensible and not a little patronising toward the many responsible, capable carp/speci anglers out there. These are your words not mine - and they don't represent what I think - there are other examples in the same post, but even I'm bored.

Even the Chav Professor was driven to an emoticon with his tale of the boy in France 'catching' (some might say trapping) a Carp whilst eating his breakfast.


Another "thousand words".......

Back to the Post - general agreement then that 'Unattended Rods' are bad. But the 'Elephant in the room' that no one likes to talk about is actually there's a lot of people who like night fishing and its different because you're not really asleep you're just dozing off - a bit.


If you haven't done it, then you haven't an opinion worthy of the name.
I predicted way back that the semantics of what constitutes "unattended rods" would be a free-for-all and I wasn't disappointed.
One or two examples of bad practice don't make for a damning indictment of the thousands of anglers who successfully fish this way.
You might as well criticise all float-fishing for leaving small hooks and light line trailing from Big Fish which are too strong for the tackle.

I hope you don't apply the same theory to driving a car.

Now that is a really pointless analogy.

Hi Noknot! Great to hear from you again.

Mark

Why be bored with a decent debate on a subject there are obviously strong feelings about?