Wilson and Hayes

steph mckenzie

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In 20 or 30 years time, will John Wilson and Matt Hayes be the new Walker and Stone ?

Who do you think will be the new angling icons in the near Future.

Perhaps Hearn and Bowler.
 

sam vimes

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Can't see Wilson and Hayes being seen as anything other than they are seen now, TV presenting anglers. I certainly don't think of either as angling innovators in the same way as Walker.
 

steph mckenzie

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So are you saying then that Wilson and Hayes have done nothing to help promote angling?

In a Poll run by the Angling Times newspaper in 2004, John Wilson was voted the greatest angler of all time. So he must have made and left an impression on angling.

What did Chris Yates and Bob james do as angling Innovators ?
They will still be seen as Angling Icons and Legends by many.

Walker was just a guy who went fishing, plain and simple.
 
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Scott Whatmore

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That's a toughie.

There will be some who favour one angler or another for their own reasons. Is it fair or possible to accurately compare attributes when they are from 2 completely different eras ?

But I believe that while neither of your options can (as of yet) be classed as great anglers, They have both been great for angling.
 
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sam vimes

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So are you saying then that Wilson and Hayes have done nothing to help promote angling?

In a Poll run by the Angling Times newspaper in 2004, John Wilson was voted the greatest angler of all time. So he must have made and left an impression on angling.

What did Chris Yates and Bob james do as angling Innovators ?
They will still be seen as Angling Icons and Legends by many.


I didn't say a word about promoting angling and I don't much care who was voted the greatest angler of all time. I didn't suggest that Chris Yates and Bob James were great innovators.

As far as I'm concerned Chris Yates and Bob James are decent writers on fishing and co-presenters of one of the best angling programmes I've ever seen. A rung higher than either Matt Hayes or John Wilson in that respect. All may be seen as iconic or even legendary by many but I'm not particularly bothered. The general public does like those in the limelight for whatever reason, not all of them particularly good or particularly rational. The people that it applies to would be daft to ignore that as a chance to make a few quid. The four named certainly have and have become better known and become brand names in the process.

Walker was just a guy who went fishing, plain and simple.

He's no particular hero of mine, I don't really do the hero thing, but he was definitely innovative. I also have little doubt that, had he been about in this day and age, he'd have garnered as much fame, and maybe wealth if he'd wanted it, as just about any of the foremost of modern big name anglers. (Don't get the idea that I'm suggesting that all name anglers are coining it in, or even want to though.) The world is a different place to when Walker was alive and at the top of his game. To dismiss him as "just a guy who went fishing" is more than a little harsh.
 

richiekelly

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i would think that if aked many of the younger generation of anglers wouldnt know how to answer the question, some may not have even heard of RW but will have heard of wilson and hayes, although RW was an inovator in his day he also had access to waters that the general public didnt, it can be the same today with exclusive syndicates etc, at the time that RW was fishing there was room for inovation mostly i belive because the tackle he needed for his fishing didnt exsist, i dont belive that room is there much nowadays,also would he have been an inovator nowadays when all the tackle needed is freely available or would he as steph says be just a man that goes fishing? diffrent people in different times, how can one be compared against another.
 

Frank Elson

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We cannot know about Skues and others from way before out time, except by the handful of books they wrote.
We know of Wilson and Hayes et al through the television programmes they make. We make our own minds up whether we like them or not - I do.

But those of us who have followed Richard Walker from the late 1950s. Read about him and what he wrote, seen the few TV appearances he made on things like "Out of Town" cannot argue - even if we wanted to - that he was anything other than a man who has meant more to angling than any other person.
The evidence is there. Some people can use personal prejudice or bias to ignore it, but it is still there.
 

Fred Bonney

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I have to say for me John Wilson did more than anybody to sell fishing to a wider audience (Anglia).
Not certain about Matt Hayes, was/is he on Sky?

I can't remember reading anything in my formative years by **** Walker. I can remember the Clarisa catch and publicity.
She had died before I got to London Zoo though.

Others who had influence were Jack Hargreaves, and my first writer in the weeklies (if he wrote it) Tom Williams.
Both had the ability to make you feel you were by the waterside with them.
 

steph mckenzie

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Steph

What does this mean?

Mark

Well i didn't realise it was that difficult a statement to comprehend, however, i will try to put it in an easier outlay.

In 20 or 30 years time, will people look back at the achievements of John Wilson and Matt Hayes in a similar or same way as a certain generation of Anglers look back at **** Walker or Peter Stone.

To go one step further .... an angler of 20 years old today, if asked what influenced them to start fishing in 30 years time might say, Seeing John Wilson or Matt Hayes on Sky Tv. They might never have heard of **** Walker or Peter Stone until after they got in to Fishing.
 

Comfortably_Numb

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I have to say for me John Wilson did more than anybody to sell fishing to a wider audience (Anglia).

He definately sustained me & my friends interest in the sport as a 14 year old (1986). Twiddling my indoor aerial trying to get Anglia on my portable black & white TV just to catch a glimpse of the show.
He may not be the best ever angler, the most innovative but no-one has isnpired more anglers imo.
 

sam vimes

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To go one step further .... an angler of 20 years old today, if asked what influenced them to start fishing in 30 years time might say, Seeing John Wilson or Matt Hayes on Sky Tv. They might never have heard of **** Walker or Peter Stone until after they got in to Fishing.

Not one name angler of any generation influenced me to start fishing. It's just something I fancied doing. I didn't learn who any big name angler was until I'd been at it about five years. I'd much rather buy a pint or two of maggots than buy a magazine. The first name angler I did become aware of would have been John Wilson but all he achieved was to disillusion me with the waters that I was fishing compared to the waters he was fishing that were totally out of reach to a kid.:D
 

Jim Crosskey 2

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Sam, what age are you? The only reason I ask is because that pretty much encapsulates my own thoughts...(I'm 41)... I started fishing as a kid of 9 or 10 years old, mostly because my older brother and mates did and there was pretty good access to the rivers ock and thames where I grew up (a 10 minute walk).... by the time I was 12 I was going a great deal on my own. When "Go Fishing" first started being broadcast, like you I used to get really annoyed at the quality of fish that JW seemed to produce at will - massive carp and pike, huge roach, big chub etc etc... I'll always remember the first session I ever caught a fish, I had two gudgeon out of the thames and I walked home on air!!! To then see someone catching like that was actually a little discouraging to me and I left the sport alone when I was about 14 or so (various other things suddenly took up my attention!) However, throughout my time of not going, I'd still always try to watch Go Fishing and I must confess to becoming a life long fan. JW's manner is superb, I'm not sure you could wish for a better ambassador for fishing and we're lucky to have him.

(Incidentally, fishing re-commenced when I was about 19 or 20 and has become my main pastime, a situation I can't really see changing!)

As for Matt Hayes... I've enjoyed pretty much all of his output, through the Discovery channel -Total Fishing was a pretty good way of finding out about going methods and tactics... however, I'm sure like many the output I like best of MH's is that which features his fishing with Mick Brown. The rod race programs (Great and Greater), lake escapes, record breaking fish... all of these feature much better production and a genuine on-screen chemistry between the pair of them that you end up genuinely wanting to be along with them, catching some decent fish but also enjoying a bit of banter and craic, something I'm sure all but the most solitary of anglers can relate to. It's also worth poiniting out that Matt is a really good TV presenter, which is a real skill in itself. I recently purchased a dvd called "Teme Tigers" presented by Chris Ponsford. In terms of a video production, it's a little bit amateurish - and in terms of talent in front of the camera, it just goes to show what Matt Hayes has by the bucketload

(And incidentally, this is meant as no offence to Chris Ponsford who I'm pretty sure looks in on here! The catching of fish in "Teme Tigers" is quite phenomenal in some really tough conditions!! And after all, that's what the thing is about.... it's just that a commissioning editor at a TV station is never going to look at it and think "Here's our Man!!" However, if I was looking for a guide for a session on the Teme, Chris is definitely the man I'd choose)

As for whether either of them is comparable to **** Walker... personally I think "no".... The point about DW is he innovated so many of the ideas within angling that we now take completely for granted. It always makes me laugh that he sometimes gets mentioned in contexts pertaining towards a traditionalist approach, whereas I'm pretty sure if he was around today then his name would be synonmous with everything at the very cutting edge of angling. Bite alarms, bolt and hair rigs, carbon fibre rods etc etc... it's this aspect of innovation that for me puts him in a different league.

As for Peter Stone, surely just a lucky old boy from Oxford? With an instinct and knoweldge "from within"..... It's a shame no one ever gave him a TV program, cos judging by the few TV appearances I've seen of him, he has two fascintating qualities... he understood his quarry in a way that's frankly a bit sppoky (maybe all that taxidermy gave him some knowledge the rest of us just can't access)... and he could tell and absolutely brilliant story! I think his charisma would have made him a potentially great TV star - but unfortunately at the time I think his accent would have been a bit much for a mainstream TV company to take a chance on.
 

chav professor

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I missed out on the Richard Walker era - for me and by brother - John Wilson was GOD!

Sadly, having matured, i realised that fishing still mournes the departing of anglers of the Richard Walker and peter Stone mould. they were stand alone genious's of the sport and could never be replaced.

I wonder wether magazines have declined in sales because there is not anyone writing anything new! Is scaling down carping tactics inovative and applying it to every species?

If you own or buy old magazines with stone and walker writing in them - you can see what is so sorely missing in todays bland, glossy mags........
 
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