Using a centrepin

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Bully OOELM

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Mmmmmm the Wallis cast.

Tried - completely failed. Love pins but have never managed to even get close to achieving the Wallis!
 
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Nigel Connor(ACA ,SAA)

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Paul, I'm no master compared to Alan but it's important to have decent weight float on.Thats why I asekd Wendy whether it was an actual stick she was using.I have always struggled to Wallis cast with lighter floats and prefer to save it whenI have a good balsa or Chubber on with the weight down the line.The cast was developed after all by the Nottingham anglersof whom Wallis was one,who used it on the fast flowing Trent with big floats.

I think we need to persuade Alan to head down for one of the Grayling Days and then he can give us all some pointers.
 

Wendy Perry 2

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Nigel it was a very big float and the shot was bulked down the line with about 5 AAA's i think? And yes i should imagine it would be hard to Wallis cast with a lighter float, as the weight helps to get it out that bit further.

Bully you should keep going at it, it's ace!
 

Trisantona

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Be interested to know what rod reel and line you used also,originally slow action cane rods would have been used with silk line,which is thicker than nylon,i have recently started using 6lb daiwa Sensor because i have a bulk spool and a stack of pins which i like to try em all,and have found it easier to use than the 3 lb stuff i used to use....i dont think FWK was from Nottingham although he may well have fished the Trent,but i think he mainly fished the Hampshire Avon.....BTW ,Legering was much frowned upon years ago and not allowed in matches.
 

Peter Jacobs

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There is some controversy over who invented the Wallis cast with William Bailey (a Nottingham angler) often being credited. Regardless, F.W.K. Wallis was certainly not (according to my research) a Nottingham man, but from Hampshire. Wallis popularised this style of casting over many years on the Hampshire Avon and his persistance led to a good number of free-running centrepins being developed, I think the Cotton was directly attributed to Wallis' insistance. Trisantona is absolutely correct though; as silk lines and slow actioned cane rods were the order of the day. I can attest to the fact that the Wallis cast is a far sight easier with a cane rod than a modern one from the carboniferous period. Wendy, As enjoyable as fishing the 'pin can be, don't fall into the trap of using it everytime you are on the river. I use my 'pins a lot, but in all probability the conditions are only really perfect about 20% of the time.
 
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Nigel Connor(ACA ,SAA)

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Peter, I normally bow to your kowledge of the history of the sport but I still stand by my view that Wallis was a Trent man.

He was a fishing partner of the famous Henry Coxon.I quote from John Bailey's "The Great Anglers":

"..in the 1920s he(Coxon) and his Nottingham partner FWK Wallis began his famous pilgrimages to the Hampshire Avon.."

It was in the 30s however after the stocking of the Avon with the Thames barbel that he came into his own.I quote Bailey again:

"..He had learnt from Coxon and he could skillfully apply Trent talents to the very productive waters of the Royalty..."

I am happy to be proved wrong.
 

Peter Jacobs

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"I am happy to be proved wrong."

Me too Nigel, I have not been able to find much source data regarding Wallis' in a biographical sense, but from my reading it was (at least infered) that Wallis came from Hampshire.

As you know, I am not an admirer of Bailey so you won't find any of his works on my bookshelves, maybe I should borrow a copy or two to see what he has to say about Wallis.
 
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John H Member of THE C.S.G.. & The A.T.

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Knowing his liking for C/Pins, I would have thought Ron would have a thing or two to say on the subject? Using, not where Wallis came from. Everyone knows he comes from Essex, hey Spawny/forum/smilies/wink_smiley.gif
 
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Nigel Connor(ACA ,SAA)

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I recall there being a piece on him in Waterlog some time ago.I will dig it out.

The Great Anglers is worth a buy Peter as it is the only modern(ish) bookI can think of which attempts some history of the sport in this country.
 

Peter Jacobs

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W.T.F. happend to my line spacing and paragraphs in that first post?????????

It looks nothing like the way I wrote it - can any of the technical team offer a glimmering of what went wrong?



Nigel,

I'll see if cannot seek a loan of Great Anglers then.
 

chavender

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The Nottingham or not nottingham cast

Mr wallis invented the wallis veriation a much improved version of what William Bailey's style of casting which inturn was adynamic version off a nottingham cast (not the loop cast,now known as the "nottingham cast" ,as theres a subtle difference but are closley related) best described by john bickerdyke in "angling for coarse fish" on page 47.Titled The Trent Method .the line has to be comming off the bottom of the spool held horizontal to the ground (a deffinate nottingham trend , as theTraditional way was off the top inline with the eyes [as john ledger took joy in reminding me on occasions such as this,right he was too.]) there wasn't however any spinning of the spool just 1 simple loop pinch hold in other hand & swung from the side or overhead line released as end tackle strained out.
trentcast01.jpg






a veriation of which was too draw a second loop was practiced by some notts anglers to gain longer casts {borrowed from their yorksire counterparts}, hence the confusion with the yorkshire (sheffield,rotherham,doncster)style of loopcast where loops of line (3-4) were drawn from between the rod eyes and not from the spool .As they followed the traditional way of line exiting the top of the spool and inline with the eyes {practiced before the nottingham style} from the days of winches (3"-31/2" dia reels geared (2:1) usully made of brass a forerunner of the wider multipliers used tody and the thinner , wooden nottingham reels (3"-5"dia;no gears) made by the poor textile workers from yarn bobbin's.Later to be replaced by lighter alloy reels we know todayand cast either from the side or overhead a style of casting which predated the nottingham "trent Method"

more in part two..........
 

chavender

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Part doux.....Wallis ' I did it my way

William Bailey inproved the "trent cast" further by imparting spinning in the spool to gain distance over other competitors in casting competions (held to see who's style was best notts trent (& bailey's) sheffields {s.yorksire loop cast) southern anglers using the themes cast "drop cast" [also described by bickerdyke] Bailey won hands down ,and was all england champion ,but was soon ,neglected from competitions so he taught "bendigo johnson" All england barenuckle champion [And a nottingham ladd]his cast who went on to win many casting championships [who would argue with him!] but after there time & bickerdykes days {late victorian} things went down hill in the centrepin fishing world and what with the first & later second world wars a lot of skilled anglers where lost and the different styles merged & the lines between them became blurred Loop & trent cast become sernominusas theNottingham cast ,Baileys Nottingham castbecame a reativley forgotton style as did the thames cast "Drop cast"which is the oldest cast of the lot.

F.W.K Wallis Knew the Bailey nottingham cast ,but obviousley knew it could be improved upon ,so he did just that he added to it ,making it more efficiant by gripping the bulk or lower weight (as in side casting a stickfloat from a open faced reel) and putting a little tention in the rod tip to act as a spring to prepell the light tackle outwards ,and added the follow through to guide the flowing line upto the botton rod eye and a twist of the rod hand to return the reel from the horizontal to the vertical position to void wrap around of the line over the backplate .He also had his handles facing to the right to prevent them tangling the line.He couldn't call it the modern nottingham cast as the loopcast was now widely known as "the nottingham Cast" {rightly or wrongly the name stuck} .So he called it "The Modern Light Float cast from the reel, nottingham style" but that was bit off a mouth full and it simply became known as "The Wallis cast" to definitiate it from the "nottingham cast" {loop cast} .there are now many versions of the "Wallis" cast ,some more Akin to baileys spinning trent cast with line just hanging loose from the rod tip and different fingers being used to pull the line from the ubiquitous crooked thumb "n" hooked over the line to it being a bent index finger to the line being pinched (just like the static trent cast) but in the end its which ever way your comfortable doing it.

I hope this helps clear up any confusions ,then maybe I've just added too them .Don't dwell on it too much just get out there and cast how it suites you.
 
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Nigel Connor(ACA ,SAA)

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Chavender, Thanks for that.Fascinating stuff.

Of course these regional trends have now gone with the advent of easy travel and the angling media.

I suspect Wallis and Coxon where pioneers in travelling a good distance down to the Avon for ther fishing in those days, although more well to do game anglers obvioulsy went to Scotland etc.
 

Trisantona

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As an army officer i would think FWK would have spent time in hampshire,,,,,Maybe we should start a World Casting championships (to be held in Nottm lol),i think there would be a lot of interest from Canada where nearly everybody does the "wallis" cast, they use totally different reel positioning to over here ,and rods about ten feet long,all about balance,
 

chavender

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i could say how in nottingham in the olde worlde days they used shorter rods and braided silken lines but i'd only bore you.

well "as well to do" people they could afford to travel and so their styles of casting travelled with them ,and spread far and wide.

The old trent (single loop) style cast is still used today round here , (near nottingham) I use it to teach youngsters to cast with a rod & line {but with a open faced reel} .

theres always a lot of contravercy & confusion surounding casting centrepins especially here ner nottingham the spiritual home of centrepins ,so much came from here from wooden nottingham reels ,coxon reels ,stanton reels ( from stanton iron works/foundary in ilkeston ) & rolls royce "stanton's",adcock stantons ,trent trotter etc etc and the many wys of casting ,plus the inspirational innovation of having the line off the bottom off the spool which totally transformed centrepin angling 180' around and is now the norm and the old inline of the top method the weired alternative.

it took me a good bit of searching and reading to find all this out for myself .there is a proper geneoligy to how casts develloped and how it all split into two disaplines ofGame casting and coarse.

things haven't changed all that much plenty of the old ways are still used today.

(Ps...if theres any letter "a" missing its my new keyboard needs breaking in ,i've tried to edit them all back in ,but there you go...)
 
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Maggot

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I have a book called 'Fine Angling for Coarse Fish' in which F.W.K.Walliswrites a chapter called The Modern Light Float Cast From The Reel. Nottingham Style (the book waspublished in 1955 and is part of the Lonsdale Library)

In this chapterFWK Wallis writes:

'In angling, the art of float casting from the reel has reached a very high standard of skill and is undoubtedly the most effective and graceful of all the methods of getting the float a big distance from the bank or boat, and this with a minimum of effort and preparation. It entirely eliminates all forms of the pulling of loops from the rings of rod, or that of coiling the line on the ground previous to making a cast.'

Wallisalso writes:'Fishing in the following style, the angler who has the art thoroughly mastered will have no difficulty in propelling the float to a distance of 100 ft. and this with an easy grace and very little effort'

Wallismentions thata similartype ofcastwas practiced previously: 'Seventy or eighty years ago some form of casting from the reel was practiced by two Nottingham celebrites: William Bailey who was considered the cleverest angler of his day and who won many prizes against all comers; the other angler was the redoubtable Bendigo, the champion prize-fighter of England.'

Wendy, Congratulations on yourintroduction to the joys of the centrepin.
 

Wendy Perry 2

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Chavender, that was very interestng cheers mate!

Maggot, best thing i have ever done learn that! I am now looking to get one and learn alot more with it.
 
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