Snakes, Roach And Unhittable Bites

[chub_on_the_block]

Years ago I was fishing the Kennet at Aldermaston, wading out to midstream with landing net laid on the keepnet next to me..all stylish like, as it was a club match. After about the fourth hour with little to show for it i see this grass snake swimming upstream towards me ..thing virtually swam between my waders it was that close. Just carried on as though i was a mid-river tree or something.

I suspect theyre eyesight is not too great (or maybe just that one needed glasses).

 

[dangermouse]

Before I saw Mark W's reply I was thinking 'fill it in'
Certainly puts a stop to the finnicky bites.

The funny thing is at this venue my starting feeding regime is just 4 or 5 maggots at a time because it can be quite easy to kill a swim. I did start that way and recognised it wasn`t working so I doubled it. Never thought to increase it further though.

Glad I put this thread up, thanks to everyone for their advice.

 

[Tee-Cee]

On the subject of taking roach on the drop; Last year i came across a book by Capt L A Parker (I think that is correct!) well known for his big roach catches. In the book he mentioned 'The Wooden Ledger', something he had developed (from memory) which offered vertually zero resistance to a taking fish on the bottom (in his opinion).
The set up consisted of a short length of dowelling (3/4" or so) which is held in position by shot either side with just enough weight to allow it to drop slowly through (still) water to eventually rest on the bottom.
i made up some sealed balsa dowels with a tiny hole to take the line which I used (generally) 2/3' from the hook on very light bottoms. It was a case of casting out underarm with single maggot on the hook 'handlebar fashion' (more natural when dropping through the water when tested in shallow water) and watching the point where line met the water for bites.
Now I'm not saying I caught dozens of big roach but I did catch and what suprised me was the fact that most fish were taken 'on the drop' with fish up to 3/4lb or so and if the bait did reach bottom I then used a very light bobbin for bite detection which, generally speaking, were positive and mostly difficult to miss. I also tried repeat casting once the bait hit bottom (the sinking line stopped moving!) and this also caught fish.

Conditions (when most successful) were sunny calm days.

Nothing new in fishing but this method was new to me after 60 years fishing and it made a pleasant change to try something different. I'm no genius around the 'neutral density' side of this method ( from memory) suggested by Parker but to my mind it has merit and if the quality of bies was anything to go by the fish felt little resistance........Others may have an opinion on this!
So, if the original poster wants to try something a little different it may well prove to be the answer to his missed bites-no promises though!!

For the record I used various sizes of balsa dowelling for experimenting purposes but started with a piece 1/2" dia x 3/4" long which I stained brown and sealed with dope and a light varnish and this caught fish. The rate of decent through the water was very slow if time was spent adjusting the shot and in my opinion this was critical.....
I will be trying this again this season as I think it may well prove successful for better roach but taht remains to be seen......
The maggot hooked sidways with a light scattering of freebies also helped (in my opinion).................................

 

[Peter Jacobs]

single maggot on the hook 'handlebar fashion' (more natural when dropping through the water when tested in shallow water)

It is amazing isn't it, we tend to hook a maggot to sit vertically on the hook when it is obvious that a loose-fed maggot actually sinks in the horizontal plane . . . . . . . .


Food for thought?

 

[Tee-Cee]

Yes, I really believe this is critical for on the drop fishing and was first pointed out to me by a local angler fishing the Ouse at Holywell for big dace many moons ago. I happened to be fishing next to him and just could not hit the bites. He put me right...

ps I forgot to mention the hook length below the wood needs a dust shot to keep it straight and assist (I think) in a more natural drop......

 

[dorsetandchub]

Food for thought.....and chub.....and roach, dace.....


Something I'm going to try more often too

 

[rubio]

I would try a T formation in the circumstances you describe. Just a double maggot with the first hooked along the body toward the pointy end followed by a second hooked handlebar style as described earlier. Anti-eject type of thing? Not too sure why it helps but it does seem to for me. Maybe it's that natural fall others have mentioned.
Intrigued by the dowel method too. I've got a few old broken lignum stick floats somewhere. Maybe they would be suitable without any extra effort.
Good thread. Kind of scenario we all face from time to time.

 

[dangermouse]

Before I saw Mark W's reply I was thinking 'fill it in'
Certainly puts a stop to the finnicky bites.

Was just chatting with one of the lads I went down with and mentioned this to him. He has raised what could be a problem with this method, ie the pond has several inches of silt on the bottom and the maggots will probably burrow into it.

I suppose dead reds could be the answer? Do they work well for smaller fish?

 

[Sean Meeghan]

Now isn't that strange! I should have had Mark and Simon with me yesterday as it would have saved me a lot of time. I was fishing my local pond and started getting the finicky bites that Dangermouse had. After a spending some time trying different shotting and depths and feed rates I decided to ball it in. That did the trick and I could hit the bites. After an hour or so I strted to get the finickies again, but a switch to worm soon sorted that.

The fish I eventually caught were carp and small tench so I can only assume that they were what were giving the unhittable bites.

---------- Post added at 22:14 ---------- Previous post was at 22:09 ----------

Was just chatting with one of the lads I went down with and mentioned this to him. He has raised what could be a problem with this method, ie the pond has several inches of silt on the bottom and the maggots will probably burrow into it.

I suppose dead reds could be the answer? Do they work well for smaller fish?

Yes they do Neil. I always freeze any left over maggots and they work well on my local, which sounds a lot like your pond. I've also had success feeding small expanders and fishing a bigger soft hooker on the hook. This seems to work better than just fishing one of the small expanders on the hook and I've always thought that this was because the fish can find the bigger pellet better in the soft silt.

 

[dangermouse]

Now isn't that strange! I should have had Mark and Simon with me yesterday as it would have saved me a lot of time. I was fishing my local pond and started getting the finicky bites that Dangermouse had. After a spending some time trying different shotting and depths and feed rates I decided to ball it in. That did the trick and I could hit the bites. After an hour or so I strted to get the finickies again, but a switch to worm soon sorted that.

The fish I eventually caught were carp and small tench so I can only assume that they were what were giving the unhittable bites.

---------- Post added at 22:14 ---------- Previous post was at 22:09 ----------



Yes they do Neil. I always freeze any left over maggots and they work well on my local, which sounds a lot like your pond. I've also had success feeding small expanders and fishing a bigger soft hooker on the hook. This seems to work better than just fishing one of the small expanders on the hook and I've always thought that this was because the fish can find the bigger pellet better in the soft silt.

Cheers Sean :thumbs:

The lads I was with were fishing pellets exactly as you mention but they were pole fishing. They did do better than me but still had some problem with the finicky bites. Tbh I still find the idea of fishing pellets a bit weird because it`s not something I grew up with. The other worry would be them flying off on the cast (I don`t own a pole).

I did try a banded 8mm pellet a few times but didn`t have so much as a nibble on them. Sweetcorn also proved useless on the day, quite surprising given the 3 most common species in the place.

 

[dixi1801]

Cheers Sean :thumbs:

The lads I was with were fishing pellets exactly as you mention but they were pole fishing. They did do better than me but still had some problem with the finicky bites. Tbh I still find the idea of fishing pellets a bit weird because it`s not something I grew up with. The other worry would be them flying off on the cast (I don`t own a pole).

I did try a banded 8mm pellet a few times but didn`t have so much as a nibble on them. Sweetcorn also proved useless on the day, quite surprising given the 3 most common species in the place.

I don't suppose you've considered artificial maggot have you? I bought a pack of buoyant ones and they seem alright, can use them as a pop up type of thing. You wouldn't have your problem of them burying in the silt!

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2

 

[iannate]

Anyone used snake as hook bait?

 

[barbelboi]

Anyone used snake as hook bait?

No, but used snake bite as a hook link

 

[dangermouse]

I don't suppose you've considered artificial maggot have you? I bought a pack of buoyant ones and they seem alright, can use them as a pop up type of thing. You wouldn't have your problem of them burying in the silt!

I`m more worried about the feed burrowing into the silt than the hookbait. Not much point feeding a huge handful of maggots only to have them disappear 2 minutes later.

 

[nicepix]

Anyone used snake as hook bait?

The Cyprus Fisheries Department introduced large mouth bass into some of their dams to control the grass snake population. I had a few bass on green marabou zonker type flies a few years ago so there might be some merit in using them as bait.

Come to think of it, there are loads of slow worms in one of the fields near to my house. Wonder if the catfish would appreciate a bunch of them dangled under a float :wh

 

[Sean Meeghan]

Cheers Sean :thumbs:

The lads I was with were fishing pellets exactly as you mention but they were pole fishing. They did do better than me but still had some problem with the finicky bites. Tbh I still find the idea of fishing pellets a bit weird because it`s not something I grew up with. The other worry would be them flying off on the cast (I don`t own a pole).

I did try a banded 8mm pellet a few times but didn`t have so much as a nibble on them. Sweetcorn also proved useless on the day, quite surprising given the 3 most common species in the place.

Using soft hookers when waggler fishing is always a bit of trial and error. I've has success with the Chapel Baits ones which are some of the best I've used. Sonubaits are also good, but they tend to dry out a bit once opened and then split.

Expanders are good and much cheaper than soft hookers. Adding jelly or gelatine to the water when pumping makes them a better bet for waggler fishing.

The hook you use can make a difference too. I've been using the new Preston PR C1 hooks which are almost identical to Guru QM1s, but about half the price. These "circle" style hooks work well with pellets as they don't tear the pellet when hooking due to the very rounded shape.

 

[Chris Hammond ( RSPB ACA PAC}]

Snakes are tricky blighters to tog DM. They rarely stay in the open long enough to frame up properly and depth of field can be an issue with that elongated body. You have to try and get them side on. Here's one I spotted one spring which curiously is named after a bivvy.

 

[dangermouse]

Using soft hookers when waggler fishing is always a bit of trial and error. I've has success with the Chapel Baits ones which are some of the best I've used. Sonubaits are also good, but they tend to dry out a bit once opened and then split.

Expanders are good and much cheaper than soft hookers. Adding jelly or gelatine to the water when pumping makes them a better bet for waggler fishing.

The hook you use can make a difference too. I've been using the new Preston PR C1 hooks which are almost identical to Guru QM1s, but about half the price. These "circle" style hooks work well with pellets as they don't tear the pellet when hooking due to the very rounded shape.

Cheers Sean, some good tips there and I`ll keep an eye out for those hooks.

---------- Post added at 17:22 ---------- Previous post was at 17:21 ----------

Snakes are tricky blighters to tog DM. They rarely stay in the open long enough to frame up properly and depth of field can be an issue with that elongated body. You have to try and get them side on. Here's one I spotted one spring which curiously is named after a bivvy.

Nice shot Chris. :thumbs:

 

[dangermouse]

Had a flash of inspiration today regarding the problem of maggots burrowing into the silt. Thought I might try feeding boiled rice dyed red with food colouring. Anyone ever tried it?

 

[chefster]

Had a flash of inspiration today regarding the problem of maggots burrowing into the silt. Thought I might try feeding boiled rice dyed red with food colouring. Anyone ever tried it?

Why dont you just feed dead reds?