Closed season U-Turn

[cg74]

It is totally farcical that one can fish a lake but not a river in the close season.

What difference does it make? You can (in normal conditions) walk the banks of rivers for miles before you see another angler. I know of only one stretch of river (on the upper river Lea) which is busy daily - infact to all intents and purposes it is like a 'commercial' but on a river, mile upon mile of the Thames, Colne and Kennet are devoid of anglers! The same also applies to the G U canal, Basingstoke canal and the Kennet and Avon canal.

It's us anglers who care and protect the fisheries we should be encouraging anglers to get out and fish them! Forget the puddles get on the rivers.

You can't fish natural stillwaters; Windermere, Ullswater etc

The reason given is to protect fish stocks that can migrate to areas that are controlled by others.

---------- Post added at 20:40 ---------- Previous post was at 20:10 ----------

I do not think that the current Close Season is haphazard at all; it protects most species of fish, in most geographical areas and in the most average of weather coniditons.

That fish spawn a different times in different areas, albeit overlapping a fair bit, I see as no good reason to even contemplate different Close Seasons for different areas.

What are these average weather conditions you talk of, most days when I look at the weather forecast Newcastle seems to be 2-3`c colder than Oxford. I'd say that'd be why Sam V sees spawning fish (barbel & chub) a month later than us southerners.

Sticking with the weather, in the last 5 or 10yrs how many winters and springs have been even remotely textbook?

 

[sam vimes]

What are these average weather conditions you talk of, most days when I look at the weather forecast Newcastle seems to be 2-3`c colder than Oxford. I'd say that'd be why Sam V sees spawning fish (barbel & chub) a month later than us southerners.

I'd say it's a reasonable assumption particularly when coupled with the main northern rivers invariably rising in upland areas. From all I've observed and been told, on average, the spawning times up here are usually 3-4 weeks behind the counties of southern England. Just goes to show what a mockery it was when the old Yorkshire and Northumbria regions had the "stolen fortnight" when our coarse season started on the 1st of June.

 

[mick b]

Quote: Peter Jacobs
"The Law is on the side of those of us who want to maintain the Close Season, and long may that be the case."

To the above, I agree 100%.



Being VERY suspect of the actions of 'names' this so-called initiative is probably just another publicity opportunity for each of them to raise their profiles in the angling press.
Their opinions should be ignored!

 

[tryanythingtwice]

Dave Harrell, Des Taylor, Bob Roberts and Steve Pope eh, any of them 'guide' on rivers? The dates of the Close Season aren't perfect, they can never be, tough, live with it. It's not as though there is a blanket ban on angling from March the 15th to June the 15th is it?

 

[chub_on_the_block]

Catching up with points earlier in the thread, the SSSI bit on the Lea near Waltham Abbey is the Cornmill Stream and Old River Lea SSSI and yes, it is recognised mainly for its exceptional dragonflies (i think theres 15-20 species there) and other invertebrates as well as waterside plants. Much of the Lee was canalised or replaced by a flood relief channel so the only old flood meadows, ditches and meandering bits are in small areas like that and worthy of being nature reserves.

As for fishing and SSSIs though, the negative effect of angling is often grossly exaggerated i think. Some waters are sensitive to groundbait or heavy baiting which can affect water quality - so just ban their use on such waters. Other waters, for example lakes with rare or abundant birds may be sensitive to noise or disturbance - so restrict angler numbers or zone the areas used by anglers away from bird nesting areas or adjacent reedbeds etc.

In my opinion all nature reserves would benefit from the funding that angling can provide - money for site management tasks or equipment, for appraisal by experts to inform management for species protection or whatever. Also, the physical disturbance of small patches of water edge is generally good for bank-edge habitats and wildlife, as is the prevention of waters getting over-run by vegetation and silting up. I know of one pond where, since angling was banned by the National Trust in the early 1990s, it is now completely choked by dense weed and will need a major clean out by a bunch of conservation volunteers (if they can find any these days). It has also been invaded and totally covered by several invasive alien plant species such as the dreadful water fern Azolla - this would have been noticed and prevented if a local angling club still used the water. This pond is also SSSI for water plants, dragonflies and other invertebrates and in each case it is now a lot poorer than it was when it was fished.

 

[tiinker]

Catching up with points earlier in the thread, the SSSI bit on the Lea near Waltham Abbey is the Cornmill Stream and Old River Lea SSSI and yes, it is recognised mainly for its exceptional dragonflies (i think theres 15-20 species there) and other invertebrates as well as waterside plants. Much of the Lee was canalised or replaced by a flood relief channel so the only old flood meadows, ditches and meandering bits are in small areas like that and worthy of being nature reserves.

As for fishing and SSSIs though, the negative effect of angling is often grossly exaggerated i think. Some waters are sensitive to groundbait or heavy baiting which can affect water quality - so just ban their use on such waters. Other waters, for example lakes with rare or abundant birds may be sensitive to noise or disturbance - so restrict angler numbers or zone the areas used by anglers away from bird nesting areas or adjacent reedbeds etc.

In my opinion all nature reserves would benefit from the funding that angling can provide - money for site management tasks or equipment, for appraisal by experts to inform management for species protection or whatever. Also, the physical disturbance of small patches of water edge is generally good for bank-edge habitats and wildlife, as is the prevention of waters getting over-run by vegetation and silting up. I know of one pond where, since angling was banned by the National Trust in the early 1990s, it is now completely choked by dense weed and will need a major clean out by a bunch of conservation volunteers (if they can find any these days). It has also been invaded and totally covered by several invasive alien plant species such as the dreadful water fern Azolla - this would have been noticed and prevented if a local angling club still used the water. This pond is also SSSI for water plants, dragonflies and other invertebrates and in each case it is now a lot poorer than it was when it was fished.

I used to fish that bit of water as a boy and the dragon flies were there then and more than likely before I ever fished it. I was told that the bit of the old river that was across the road from the Old English Gentleman was also made a no go area for anglers some years ago. I used to fish it for barbel of a night in the 6os.

 

[richiekelly]

I used to fish that bit of water as a boy and the dragon flies were there then and more than likely before I ever fished it. I was told that the bit of the old river that was across the road from the Old English Gentleman was also made a no go area for anglers some years ago. I used to fish it for barbel of a night in the 6os.

Just because dragonflies were there when you fished there as a boy to me doesn't mean it would be right to fish there now, anglers IMO should not have the right to fish everywhere that endangered species live, there are plenty of other waters.

Have you ever thought that by following the advice you gave earlier in this thread about not informing anyone if you see/find something rare/endangered could end up putting whatever you saw in even more danger by keeping on fishing there. It seems very selfish to me.

I thought anglers cared about the environment, to me that means the whole environment not just the bits that suit anglers, it would seem that I thought wrong and not all care that much.

 

[Ray Wood 1]

I am surprised that Steve Pope the head of a nation wide organisation that has had the retention of the close season entwined in it’s very being since 1995 is involved.

Ray

 

[tiinker]

Just because dragonflies were there when you fished there as a boy to me doesn't mean it would be right to fish there now, anglers IMO should not have the right to fish everywhere that endangered species live, there are plenty of other waters.

Have you ever thought that by following the advice you gave earlier in this thread about not informing anyone if you see/find something rare/endangered could end up putting whatever you saw in even more danger by keeping on fishing there. It seems very selfish to me.

I thought anglers cared about the environment, to me that means the whole environment not just the bits that suit anglers, it would seem that I thought wrong and not all care that much.

If you thought that you must live on another planet get real and stop pulling my leg. You should practice what you preach if you think that and pack up angling altogether that is if you care about the whole environment.

 

[no-one in particular]

As the weather is different every year, why not determine when the close season should be for each year in February based on the current weather and the predictions of the weather and the knowledge of the EA experts and scientific expertise as to when the majority of fish will spawn for the current year. Then have the close season for the year emblazoned on the license. !

 

[tiinker]

As the weather is different every year, why not determine when the close season should be for each year in February based on the current weather and the predictions of the weather and the knowledge of the EA experts and scientific expertise as to when the majority of fish will spawn for the current year. Then have the close season for the year emblazoned on the license. !

That would work MG if predicting the weather was a exact science but it is far from it. I was on the phone the other day to the top EA man for my catchment area Alistair Wilson we were talking about water levels and the borehole. He said to me although the water is up in the Bec at the moment you know as I do that there will be at least two dry periods in the next fifteen years he is one of the EAs top hydrologists. Maybe they have a idea in the long run but not in the short term as we have often seen.

 

[mick b]

If we had a flexible close season just imagine the excuses when some of the 'names' were caught fishing out of season......"oh i thought it was the same as last year"...!
Only slightly better than the excuse tried by the INfamous name when he got caught AND prosecuted..(a good job well done by the EA).

Some anglers can be a problem, fishing in closed zones, using methods that disturb the residents (human and natural), removing bankside vegetation because its 'in the way' and worst of all secreting their little piles of rubbish where they think it wont be found (rather than take it home with them) being just a few.

However, in general, most Anglers can be good for a water, they have certainly assisted me in several important prosecutions in the past, they aslo notice the activities of wildlefe and by passing it on be of assistance in the management of the site.

My understanding is that fish spawning is governed by light levels, the same as birds, if so water levels, weather or anything other than a change in the position of moon would have little effect.

It will be interesting to read Steve Pope's views when he posts on this subject.


.

 

[tiinker]

Different anglers will always have differing opinions on where to fish some will use common sense but others will not. We have varying areas depending on water levels where members can and cannot fish. Some areas are roped of permanently others are sectioned off as needed. A closed season is operated on the Bec including a flexible approach when fish are spawning once the fishery is open.

 

[richiekelly]

If you thought that you must live on another planet get real and stop pulling my leg. You should practice what you preach if you think that and pack up angling altogether that is if you care about the whole environment.

I find it strange that you want to keep the closed season and yet advocate keeping secret any rare species that may be unknown in case it affects your fishing even going so far as to recommend the same action on here to others, other creatures deserve just as much protection as fish if they are rare/endangered. Do you really think that angling should come above all other creatures?

As far as I am concerned the current closed season is not fit for purpose and no closed season will ever cover spawning of all species of fish in different areas, I don't know if the system mentioned previously in Bulgaria works or not but it sounds a better bet than what we have at the moment.

I don't live on another planet and believe me I am not "pulling your leg" I genuinely believe that if rare species are found where they have not been known before they should be reported to the appropriate people, why anyone would think differently in case it may affect their fishing is selfish in the extreme.

I fail to see the logic behind your statement that if I "care about the whole environment" I should stop fishing, there are places that angling should not be allowed or tightly controlled if its to protect rare species , to do otherwise would be wrong. In other places anglers can be as mentioned by COTB a help to the environment, its about balance.

 

[no-one in particular]

Look at it this way- re a flexible close season. NOBODY who has bought a license would have an excuse for not knowing when the close season is. Anyone fishing during the said close season is very likely not to have a license as well. If they claim they did not know, then they should have bought a fishing license. !! If they did buy a license, then they have no valid excuse. !

Secondly, no close season is going to be perfect or suit everyone but, would it be a better system than the present one where the CS is fixed regardless of climate changes, yearly or long term.

Thirdly, Predicting weather is not a perfect science, far from it, but the EA using all the best available information each year by climatologists could make a stab at it each year and a judgement as to when the most likely spawning period is going to occur for each year. Would not that be better than an assumption that all fish are going to spawn during the same time each year given the exceptional climate changes we experience each season/year now.

 

[jacksharp]

I find it strange that you want to keep the closed season and yet advocate keeping secret any rare species that may be unknown in case it affects your fishing even going so far as to recommend the same action on here to others, other creatures deserve just as much protection as fish if they are rare/endangered. Do you really think that angling should come above all other creatures?

As far as I am concerned the current closed season is not fit for purpose and no closed season will ever cover spawning of all species of fish in different areas, I don't know if the system mentioned previously in Bulgaria works or not but it sounds a better bet than what we have at the moment.

I don't live on another planet and believe me I am not "pulling your leg" I genuinely believe that if rare species are found where they have not been known before they should be reported to the appropriate people, why anyone would think differently in case it may affect their fishing is selfish in the extreme.

I fail to see the logic behind your statement that if I "care about the whole environment" I should stop fishing, there are places that angling should not be allowed or tightly controlled if its to protect rare species , to do otherwise would be wrong. In other places anglers can be as mentioned by COTB a help to the environment, its about balance.

This is a link to a blog about an environmental project that our club is carrying out at a water that is totally owned by us. The water is an old mill pool and, left as it is, it is a perfectly pleasant place to fish with a good head of silvers, bream, tench, ide and some carp. When the work has been done the environment will be improved and will hopefully provide a richer ecology for birds, small mammals and invertebrates. Anglers can, and do, make a difference.

Grimsditch 2nd Feb 2014 (The Plan) | Grimsditch Project

 

[tiinker]

Look at it this way- re a flexible close season. NOBODY who has bought a license would have an excuse for not knowing when the close season is. Anyone fishing during the said close season is very likely not to have a license as well. If they claim they did not know, then they should have bought a fishing license. !! If they did buy a license, then they have no valid excuse. !

Secondly, no close season is going to be perfect or suit everyone but, would it be a better system than the present one where the CS is fixed regardless of climate changes, yearly or long term.

Thirdly, Predicting weather is not a perfect science, far from it, but the EA using all the best available information each year by climatologists could make a stab at it each year and a judgement as to when the most likely spawning period is going to occur for each year. Would not that be better than an assumption that all fish are going to spawn during the same time each year given the exceptional climate changes we experience each season/year now.

I do not think that taking a stab at it as you say is the answer is it. last year everything was late who knows what this year will bring yet. They said on the news this morning parts of the country could be in for eight inches of snow next week and plunging temperatures . As I said if we knew great but we do not know what is just around the corner as it were.

 

[richiekelly]

I do not think that taking a stab at it as you say is the answer is it. last year everything was late who knows what this year will bring yet. They said on the news this morning parts of the country could be in for eight inches of snow next week and plunging temperatures . As I said if we knew great but we do not know what is just around the corner as it were.

So do you think that what we have at the moment is suitable? you cannot complain about anglers catching gravid fish in one post and yet support an archaic closed season that invites the catching of these fish can you?

Would you please answer the question posed to you in my previous post, I am interested in your response.

 

[tiinker]

I have been involved in recovering one of the most historic fisheries from being turned into a hole in the ground by being reworked by its then owners to something that is beyond most peoples belief of what could be achieved You can read about it in The History of Carp Fishing Revisited. Kevin Clifford I do not need to be told what anglers can achieve with the right effort. Becontree & District.

 

[richiekelly]

Some of the names have decided that the closed season should be shortened by a month. that it should allow fishing till may and be closed for all of May and the whole of June Steve Pope, Dave Harrell, Bob Roberts and Des Taylor all think this is a good idea. I do not all it is, is a few names looking after their own interests as usual. I am not a fan of Keith Arthur but his comment in the angling times sums it up for me " People who want to fish the rivers for longer are thinking only of themselves". The catch them while their heavy brigade will love it.

Are you not doing the same by advocating not reporting rare species in case it affects your fishing?