Problems with spade hooks.....

[wes79]

For a while I've had a few packs of spade hooks lying around and set about trying to make some simple hook lengths with them and use them for general purpose/paste or bread.

I've watched video's on YT to get the tying method right and what ever I do when ever I come to tighten the whipping of line round the shank or hold the hook using forceps pulling the line with the other hand the damn line snaps off to easy, most of the time leaving the whipping of line attached to the hook.

Looking at the knot is fine and pinching the first wrap around with my fingers at the start is easy enough but when it comes to tighten the first few wrap arounds when I'm about to feed the tag through the hoop and tighten they are visibly the most slack and I cannot get that "out of the packet" uniform wrap around all the way down, even have to bully the line to run straight & direct it past the spade the right way on the hook as the knots have a tendancy to end up leaving the line where the spade can easily cut through the line if you get me drift.

I don't want to bin the hooks, they look strong enough for what I want to use them for, very sharp so otherwise happy with that part justr need to have complete trust in using them otherwise pretty pointless.

do I need to buy a gadget or do I need some help/tip on technique?

Cheers & Beers

 

[greenie62]

...do I need to buy a gadget or do I need some help/tip on technique?

No - you don't need to - but I would recommend you buy a 'Matchman Hook Tyer' - last one I bought was about 65p in 1969 - Most tackle shops sell them - Matchman Hook Tyer - Ted Carter - there's a helpful video showing how to use it!

There are some on this forum who can tie spades by hand without a tyer - well done to them - only one thing to say to them - "get a life smartypants!"

 

[sam vimes]

If you are having problems tying spades by hand, just bite the bullet and buy a hook tyer. The original Matchman is the most common, but there are more fancy variations on the theme from Stonfo, Maver and others.

Drennan do a different take on the theme and it's the one I tend to prefer.

MATCHMAN HOOK TYER 1180976830 12cm + DISGORGERS 15cm COARSE FISHING | eBay

MATCHMAN HOOK TYER 12cm+EXCEED LOOP TYER/DISGORGER 16&16.4cm FISHING TOOLS | eBay

 

[john step]

Good God, I never realised people were still tying spade ends without a device.
My reasoning is that I thought it was only "old school" still tying their own and if their fingers have become as unwieldy as mine then I admire their abilities.

Get a hooktyer as previously advised. You wont look back. You will be able to whip a new hook on in a few seconds on the bank if need be.

 

[Tee-Cee]

Well, you can call me 'smartypants' if you want to, but I still tie my spades by hand and, at pinch, I can do a 20 but more generally 18 to 1,5lb is my limit...

I would be telling porkies if I said every attempt resulted in a perfect result but for my needs, half a dozen at a time to supplement the tackle box, plus losses, is fine. I reuse hooks but they are always retied simply because the line at that BS needs it.

I suppose I manage one 'good tie' in every two attempts and always have a minimum of eight turns down the shank ( with 1,5lb BS) and normally ten although in reading about tying spades many suggest six turns as perfectly okay.

I have used the 'hook tyer' mentioned above recently and it works okay, so IMHO Wes79 just needs to spend a little quiet time having a practice. Personally I think it's a job that needs time and patience to get dead right and once perfection is achieved I find it very satisfying to use 'home ties'......It does take time though !!!
I would also suggest starting out with (say) 4lb line as it's a little more forgiving before working with very fine lines. Oh, and have a decent light available..

I'm no expert and I've learnt a lot from others on FM around this subject, but I am totally confident around my own efforts, proven when a rogue carp occasionally heads off with my hemp seed hook bait !

 

[wes79]

Thanks guys, looks like I'm just rubbish at making spade hooklengths, will look into getting the hook tyer tomorrow while I'm out shopping.

I had to chuckle at the forgiving 4lb line seems Ive been searching for mercy as well, trying to make hooklengths with a size 12 maver Mt-5 hook using 6 & 8lb mono.....mg: there was no line rating on the packet for forest gump here, will have another go tonight, if I can get one made on the bank one day with confidence using my fingers that would be something even if its just to tie one for someone else who can't tie em but I'll settle for indoors with a hook tyer for now, certainly been testing my patience last night did one out of 10 goes and still didn't want to risk using them so cut the hooks off to try again.

 

[djd]

The Matchman (or Drennan) hooktyer is the usual way to go.

However, it's not as strong as a snell knot, and because the tag end is trapped under a loop, if the knot constricts just a little then the whole lot unravels.

This is the best way to tie a snell.

how to tie a spade end hook lengthmp4 - YouTube

 

[Tee-Cee]

wes79.....I know how you feel with the tying, and the confidence to try one out once tied. I think anyone who has tied hooks goes through the same 'crisis of confidence' for a while and I suppose at the end of the day we all just have to give it a go and hope nothing breaks !

I'm tying some now with the 'hooktyer' and I've made a real dog's breakfast of the first two attempts so your 10 efforts may be just the start, I'm afraid...

Keep trying though....

ps Lot of matchmen on FM who may be able to help you if you have a tying question !

 

[sumtime]

No - you don't need to - but I would recommend you buy a 'Matchman Hook Tyer' - last one I bought was about 65p in 1969 - Most tackle shops sell them - Matchman Hook Tyer - Ted Carter - there's a helpful video showing how to use it!

There are some on this forum who can tie spades by hand without a tyer - well done to them - only one thing to say to them - "get a life smartypants!"

I too have always used the Matchman, one time in Thassos, Greece, I fished a small harbour, got chatting to a local man who I showed my Matchman to, he was amazed and said..."theece eez magic", made me laugh so I gave the item to him, he was highly delighted.

 

[Tee-Cee]

That was the 'hook tyer' you showed him, rather than your 'Matchman' ??

Just asking..............Either way, 'eez magic' is pretty good I'd say !

 

[rubio]

I think the knot I use is a 'domhof'. Whatever it is I can tie more easily, even in the dark, than an eyed hook. My close range vision is poor now but the only difficult bit for me is seeing to put the tag end thro the loop. I forced myself to learn some years ago now feel confident of a secure knot with 9 turns the standard for me. I previously thought 7 turns in winter for a smaller lighter knot but 9 is always the go nowadays. Like any knot I tie it can fail but that is down to me and if it does I'm not left cursing the expensive pretied packet I bought.

 

[wes79]

Just tried to tie another one and it actually feels secure :w gonna have a beer to celebrate , only thing I did differently is like in the vid I just watched, made the line running parallel to the shank taught by putting a weight on it (computer speaker), then I used the wrap around line starting at the curve end working way back up to the spade and its the best one I've done (probably beginners luck ) not sure how to keep that part of the line taught if doing it on the bank but its a start.

Just on a side note, what do you guys do with the other end, do you double it up and tie a normal basic over hand knot or is there a better knot to keep the hooklink strong on the mainline also?

Thanks for your input folks, really appreciate all the advice/help for my questions, you must see these repeated every so often, even the tellings off I'm getting here are good/helpful.

tight lines.

 

[bracket]

I have tied spade end hooks by hand all my angling life and never had a problem, although in my dotage the "windows" have gone and I have slowed down a bit, once upon a time I could do 100 size 22's and hour, now it's half that number. wes79 you don't say what sort of knot you are using could be you have trouble with the tension and lubrication (spit helps). I did a (very) amateur video some years ago. I cannot work out how to copy a poxy link on this site but if you google "how to tie a spade end hook beckford road" you will get it and it may be of some help. Pete.

 

[sam vimes]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSWu0-oSO20

 

[bracket]

How do you do that on this site Sam? Pete.

 

[sam vimes]

How do you do that on this site Sam? Pete.

Copy the URL out of a browser window. Click on reply to open up a reply window. Click on the little world and chain icon half way through the second row of the toolbar icons. Paste the URL into the resulting dialogue box.

 

[bracket]

Thanks for replying Sam. Yes I have done all that and I get the URL copied and duplicated with additional info, but that's before I submit the reply, are you telling me it comes out OK once you have made the submittion? Pete.

 

[binka]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSWu0-oSO20

To my surprise the finished job there looked spot on.

It appeared to me that the doubled up length of line which lays along the shank of the hook prior to whipping was twisted which has always spelt disaster for me as I can never predict if the line will be coming off the front of the spade and I always make sure the two lengths of line lay parallel without twist prior to whipping, I also only whip half a dozen turns and find that pulling the knot tight against the weight of and away from a trapped spool (usually between my knees) avoids any kinking on the last inch of the hooklength although I do then have to push the knot up the shank and towards the spade with a finger nail.

Just goes to show... Neat job Pete, thanks for posting it.

 

[djd]

I have tied spade end hooks by hand all my angling life and never had a problem, although in my dotage the "windows" have gone and I have slowed down a bit, once upon a time I could do 100 size 22's and hour, now it's half that number. wes79 you don't say what sort of knot you are using could be you have trouble with the tension and lubrication (spit helps). I did a (very) amateur video some years ago. I cannot work out how to copy a poxy link on this site but if you google "how to tie a spade end hook beckford road" you will get it and it may be of some help. Pete.

Ah ha. That's the video I posted previously (post #7)
Very helpful video. :thumbs:

Dave

 

[binka]

Ah ha. That's the video I posted previously (post #7)
Very helpful video. :thumbs:

Dave

Yes you did and I never clicked the link, sorry Dave... And another thanks for posting it