Thanks Thanks:  0
Likes Likes:  6
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 11 to 18 of 18
  1. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Charente, France
    Posts
    5,063

    Default Re: Carp, maybe not so invasive after all.

    Quote Originally Posted by barbelboi View Post
    Yes, it's all a bit if or but Clive - if the Romans did in fact introduce carp during their occupation years one would assume that there would be a lot more hard evidence from excavations than one skeleton which was attributed to a Roman 'bigwig's' pet..?
    I agree Jerry. They have found rabbit bones in a post Roman meal that suggests that they were being farmed and butchered well before the Norman invasion. The problems with the period between the Romans leaving and the Normans coming is that there is little written down on that sort of subject. Only really the Saxon Chronicles to go on. Now if the Venerable Bede had been an angler...........
    I tread the path where no one goes,
    and cast to fish nobody knows.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Manchester
    Posts
    4,529
    Blog Entries
    4

    Default Re: Carp, maybe not so invasive after all.

    Quote Originally Posted by nicepix View Post
    I'm puzzled by this too Jerry. as you say, the written records regarding carp commence around 1340 but there are several unanswered questions. Monasteries pre-date 1340 by at least a hundred years suggesting that monks were present much earlier than the carp farming records began. Almost 200 years in some cases. We also know that Romans introduced carp into their homeland and also conquered areas such as France where many monks originated. And there are records of inland fisheries in the Domesday Book suggesting that some form of fish farming or harvesting took place in the Anglo-Saxon period.

    I wouldn't be surprised if the Romans introduced them along with rabbits and snails. After all, it would have made perfect sense. It is what they did. After the Roman period the Dark Age people didn't have the nous or will for farming and I could see carp becoming extinct or nearly extinct.

    Regards the records of pike and other fish on the royal table it might be a case of rarity being desirable. If truffles were a quid a kilo nobody would bother with them. Farmed carp are easy to harvest. Pike less so.

    Just my two cents worth.
    Quite Clive, the water, a smallish natural mere, dating back to it's formation at the end of the Ice age was stocked and framed for its carp, by the owning family (De Sandford's) from 1060. The family is also listed in the Doomsday Book as Nobles living on the Estate. The Historic records show that a fish pond was given by the then De Sandford descendant to his son as a wedding present in 1200. The estate contains several now small ponds on it from that time. It's likely one of these was the wedding gift to the son.
    The Estate was sold in the mid 1500s to the present family who's descendants still own it and hold the written records of both families. On the current owning family's website it lists a 1000 years of carp presence in the mere based on the records they hold.

  3. #13

    Default Re: Carp, maybe not so invasive after all.

    There was so much trade going on in the eastern world before written records began it would not surprise me in the slightest if carp made their way to Europe, in the form of salt fish, and then on to Britain way before the roman invasion. Could be a nice research project there for someone working towards a degree.
    I wouldn't mind betting that the basements of certain museums are bursting at the seams with fish bones just waiting for someone to categorise them properly.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Charente, France
    Posts
    5,063

    Default Re: Carp, maybe not so invasive after all.

    With DNA analysing becoming ever more affordable there has never been a better time to unlock these sort of puzzles.
    I tread the path where no one goes,
    and cast to fish nobody knows.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    .
    Posts
    5,526

    Default Re: Carp, maybe not so invasive after all.

    All the stuff I have found so far on the web about must farm quarry says carp I suppose for a definitive ( and interesting ) answer someone could contact

    Department of Archaeology, University of Cambridge
    Downing Street, Cambridge, CB2 3DZ

    TEL (01223) 327802 FAX (01223) 314686
    Email: cauadmin@arch.cam.ac.uk

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Charente, France
    Posts
    5,063

    Default Re: Carp, maybe not so invasive after all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Titus View Post

    I wouldn't mind betting that the basements of certain museums are bursting at the seams with fish bones just waiting for someone to categorise them properly.
    Where is Austin Wheeler when you need him?
    I tread the path where no one goes,
    and cast to fish nobody knows.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Manchester
    Posts
    4,529
    Blog Entries
    4

    Default Re: Carp, maybe not so invasive after all.

    Quote Originally Posted by nicepix View Post
    Where is Austin Wheeler when you need him?
    Don't know where "Austin" Wheeler is, but I do know where Alwyne Wheeler is? He's cosmic fishing since 2005
    Alwyne Wheeler 5 October 1929–19 June 2005 - Crimmen - 2006 - Journal of Fish Biology - Wiley Online Library

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Charente, France
    Posts
    5,063

    Default Re: Carp, maybe not so invasive after all.

    Quote Originally Posted by The bad one View Post
    Don't know where "Austin" Wheeler is, but I do know where Alwyne Wheeler is? He's cosmic fishing since 2005
    Alwyne Wheeler 5 October 1929–19 June 2005 - Crimmen - 2006 - Journal of Fish Biology - Wiley Online Library
    That's him. My memory

    He was the man who everyone deferred to.
    I tread the path where no one goes,
    and cast to fish nobody knows.

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •