When do you try something else?

[iannate]

Rather than hijack another thread:

When or how do you decide that you should look again at what you are doing when no tweak seems to give you the results you're after?

I'm thinking in terms of (but not exclusively) baiting, presentation and techniques.

 

[rubio]

Too often I start planning a change 10mins after putting a new rig on.

 

[Harvey]

I was deephooking perch when fishing worms on the bottom. That was rather upleasant. Particularly for the perch. I couldn't get the big ones either. And that was rather unpleasant for me.

So I spent hours and hours watching swedish jig- and dropshot movies on YouTube. I also posted questions on my clubforum. And learned a lot, enough to know what it was all about, the basic teqnique, what brand of rods to buy, and where to get all the bits and pieces I needed.

And it worked beyond anything I had imagined. Where I had deephooked a few pound and something perch, I now landed perch of twice that size. In wast numbers compared to before. And they were all hooked in, or close to, the lip. No more deephooking, and all were returned healthy and happy to the river.

I have had just one outing, but have grand plans for the weekend. This is going to be very, very fun.

 

[wa1115]

Dropshot might be the answer for me to avoid the snags on the bottom?

 

[binka]

Rather than hijack another thread:

When or how do you decide that you should look again at what you are doing when no tweak seems to give you the results you're after?

I'm thinking in terms of (but not exclusively) baiting, presentation and techniques.

My first thoughts turn to whether or not I've got the location right under those circumstances, but given that you might not have much choice about moving I would start to try more radical approaches when all the normal tweaks aren't working.

If I can't find a fish by altering depth or changing the presentation eg. from float to lead then my usual favourite port of call is the feeding, if they're not having it by gradually trying to coax them in with a steady pattern then pile it in and see if you can force them on to it.

It's a bit kill or cure but if it's already dead then there's little other consequence and every chance of the cure.

 

[S-Kippy]

The short answer is not nearly as often as I should !

I tend not to diversify too much and I have developed a fairly reliable Plan A and Plan B for all my waters.. These are things that I know work so it will be little alterations to that rather than something radically different. I'm not terribly innovative or a very deep thinker about my fishing except when I get really focused on something....which is not very often as I don't get out as much as I used to.

I tend to analyse things after a trip and try different things next trip rather than on the day. I can think of a few times when I've pulled a Plan D out of nowhere and its worked but not very often. Depth, hook size, bait are the obvious ones. Feeding is not my strong suit....I know I can be too cautious but that's probably a legacy of many years on the cut and its a hard habit to break.

 

[law]

Totally depends on the trip really.
But generally, when I'm not catching, or catching something that I'm not after.

 

[wanderer]

The answer is Ian, only if others are catching and you are not, simply could be time to take a walk to another position on the water, so many times fish shoal up in certain areas for no obvious reason, prebaiting is key to generate a feeding area, rig changes, longer hooklengths in deep silt, is the bait used regularly , it may work in your favour if it isn't, could go the other way. Not all methods work on every water, you can hammer one water with one method and fail to catch anything on another, some days, nobody catches, the fish have the last say on any water that isn't overstocked and the seasons of the year with the availability of naturals can drive you mad. It worries me , when I know the fish are feeding on our bait but not taking the one on the hook, something not right and that's a real puzzler and you know what I mean.

 

[Harvey]

Dropshot might be the answer for me to avoid the snags on the bottom?

I wouldn't count on it. You loose a lot of rigs. Remember, you fish on the bottom when dropshotting.

 

[iannate]

Too often I start planning a change 10mins after putting a new rig on.

I was deephooking perch ... So I spent hours and hours watching swedish jig- and dropshot movies on YouTube.

What made you think drop shotting was the answer Harvey?

then my usual favourite port of call is the feeding, if they're not having it by gradually trying to coax them in with a steady pattern then pile it in and see if you can force them on to it.

My attempts at this have usually been 'kill'; but how do you define piling it in? I often think I have half heartedly piled it in so it's finding the balance between too much or just enough to trigger a feeding spell.

only if others are catching and you are not

This is always the yard stick - so to speak - but, each swim is different and may need another approach to get results.


Good discussion

 

[wanderer]

Yes, your comment on the swims is very true, half of the problem is understanding the venue and that only comes with time spent on it, revising your methods and baits for different areas will in the end catch you fish. If I want to test a bait or a method, I will choose a carp puddle and move on from there, some baits simply don't work on a regular enough basis to warrant there use, funnily enough I have found this to be true of tiger nuts, part of my brew but never the hookbait. Liver and raw fish, along with seafood baits can have amazing shock effects catching when nothing else will but go back another day and you will blank whilst the boilie brigade bag up. Prebaiting is the key, in known areas at given times of the day, the fish will sit on a prebaited carpet and that for me is the only certainty, if they take our bait and for what reason they don't is the great question.

 

[iannate]

What about methods, how long do you struggle on with a method (method feeder for instance) until you try another style, decide it's not for you or decide that the fish just shy away from the familiar shape and presentation on the deck.

 

[wa1115]

I wouldn't count on it. You loose a lot of rigs. Remember, you fish on the bottom when dropshotting.

I tried yesterday and hit a few snags but seemed to pull through them easier, only an hour session but in the same snaggy swim I usually lose a few bits when using jig heads.

 

[sam vimes]

I don't think I could explain if I tried. I tend to work on hunches an awful lot. Don't get me wrong, I'm not just talking about wild stabs in the dark. It's based on experience, observation, watercraft etc, etc.

It's along similar lines to taking a beginner with me. If they observe me trotting closely enough, they'll see me tweaking depths, shotting, feed rate etc. Sometimes I do such things without really thinking about it. They'll also sometimes be baffled when I strike into a fish that gave little discernable (to them) indication on the float tip. Trying to explain a fractional pause or deviation in travel, a minute tilt of the float or a slight dip that many would ignore or not see, is nigh on impossible. Despite the fishy evidence, you actually sound quite crazy when you do try to explain.

I don't really believe that such things can be taught, they come with experience.

 

[iannate]

I don't think I could explain if I tried.

I know exactly what you mean Sam, but these are things you do when you've got it basically right in the first place; do you find times when nothing seems to work and need plan r (for reset) to come in and save the day?

 

[sam vimes]

do you find times when nothing seems to work and need plan r (for reset) to come in and save the day?

Of course, and sometimes just plugging away can work fantastically too. It's knowing when to stick, twist or just tweak around the edges that's so difficult to get across. Being asked exactly why you just did something can boil down to little more than the educated hunch.

 

[wanderer]

What about methods, how long do you struggle on with a method (method feeder for instance) until you try another style, decide it's not for you or decide that the fish just shy away from the familiar shape and presentation on the deck.

Lets take the process in reverse, a bit like I used to when fishing the Nene or the GUC, start off as light as you can and gradually step up the tackle, bait size, hooks, leads and line strength, this I used to do from session to session and it sometimes means taking totally different tackle. A good pointer for me was how the match guys fished a venue, at what point they reported getting busted up and study there methods and slowly step my own tackle up till the point that the bites stop, trouble is these days, it is all too easy to just sit there and hope, many more blanks than are necessary as a result.

 

[iannate]

It's knowing when to stick, twist or just tweak around the edges that's so difficult to get across.

I like that analogy

Lets take the process in reverse ... start off as light as you can and gradually step up the tackle

Certainly has merit as an approach, match fishing taught me to step down, not up; so it seams counter-intuitive - but back then it was rare to get smashed up by carp; fishing venues or pegs where you were likely to snag a chub or barbel meant that you fished with strong enough tackle (stepping up to 6lb reel line, straight through in snaggy pegs or 4lb hook link with maybe a size 14 or 10 hook )

 

[bracket]

Of course, and sometimes just plugging away can work fantastically too. It's knowing when to stick, twist or just tweak around the edges that's so difficult to get across. Being asked exactly why you just did something can boil down to little more than the educated hunch.

Agree with you Sam . When it comes down to stick or twist I tend just to stick (float). Which really means do what you know best. Pete.

 

[wanderer]

I like that analogy



Certainly has merit as an approach, match fishing taught me to step down, not up; so it seams counter-intuitive - but back then it was rare to get smashed up by carp; fishing venues or pegs where you were likely to snag a chub or barbel meant that you fished with strong enough tackle (stepping up to 6lb reel line, straight through in snaggy pegs or 4lb hook link with maybe a size 14 or 10 hook )

I need to do some reminiscing here Ian, I have been married 30 years and I go back to my courting days, when I lived at home our milkman was a match angler, collecting the money one Friday night he said , I keep getting smashed up by ruddy carp on the Stables stretch of the GUC. I took my then girlfriend for a picnic, guess where, luncheon meat on 4 pound line chucked under the overhanging bushes on the no access bank, result 4 fish, biggest 11 pound. Went back with a carp buddy, , sweetcorn , six pound line, result, 3 fish to 15 pound, Alan was smashed six times, time to up the anti. Heavy gear, prebaiting, result a 35 pound mirror, known as old scabby, caught by quite a few other anglers before the idiots that ran the club moved the fish to save their poor match anglers blushes and some prat dewatered the section.