Stocking Levels

[wanderer]

I am aware that a lot of you lads will not agree with my opinions on this matter but i feel that i should put my own feelings down and ask your views. The recommended stocking level for a still water is 500 pounds per acre total biomass, so why are people allowed to stock way above this level, surely an animal cruelty issue is fair comment. I speak with confidence about advertised stocking levels for some very famous fisheries very close to me, i will not name them for legal reasons but you can all see them on you tube. 30 Acre reservoir6000 plus carp, plus thousands of silvers and some big predators, another 3 acre, 2 foot deep pool stuffed with fish, where a hundred pound match weight wont even register. Some where between here and the sparsely populated, big pits of the south east and east anglia, we have to decide what is angling and what is a fair contest with any credibility, lets face it some of these fish could not survive without anglers battering them on a daily basis, not enough food, stuffed in match anglers keep nets and crushed, mishandled by novices. Many fabulous tench and bream venues have been sacrificed in the pursuit of profit, should we be doing this or have a rethink about what angling means to us all, and maybe rethink the values. Sorry about the rant, but i can see dangers for us all if this continues.

 

[lambert1]

You have certainly opened a can of worms (pardon the pun!) there and opinion will I suspect be divided. I choose only to fish rivers and shy away from commercial fisheries, where I have admittedly only had one experience and that was bad. It was busy and more crowded than I am used to and there was discarded tackle everywhere. The money was collected within ten minutes of arrival by a very disinterested woman with a dog who told me not to leave maggots in the bin (as if I would). I took my son as a guy at work had said he would catch easily and indeed he did and rapidly got bored as it was way too easy. We left early. Obviously I cannot base a valid opinion on this one incident, but I can see where you are coming from. However, many of the guys on this forum fish on commercial still waters and enjoy it hugely and I suspect that there are some very well run and sensibly stocked waters out there where the owners would not dream of over stocking. Also it begs the question as to how many youngsters/novices would be lost to our sport if the commerical fisheries did not exist. There is no right answer, but there will undoubtedly be contrasting opinions.

 

[wanderer]

Yes mate, that was the point of the article, it isnt about enjoying yourself where obvious animal issues are concerned, yep we all want to hook a big fish, me by trickery and a sense of acheivement, some guys by merely paying for a day ticket, where do we draw the line, profit or a hobby that has existed for hundreds of years, nothing natural about some of these places, rats in a barrel.

 

[sam vimes]

I'm not defending them, but stocking levels are EA guidelines and not law. There are naturalised fisheries, that haven't been stocked in decades, that exceed these guidelines. My own syndicate tries to keep below them, but many complain that the fishing is too hard or they don't catch or see much. I also suspect that anglers suggesting high stocking levels as animal cruelty has an element of shooting yourself in the foot about it. Angling itself is deemed to be cruel by an awful lot of people.

The bottom line is that owners can do as they see fit with waters. We may not like it, but it's the way it is. I'm also a lot less convinced that even the worst commercials are quite as bad as some make out (with regards to stocking levels at least). Fish stocks are valuable, even the unwanted species, if and when fisheries do have problems, not many will baulk at the prospect of supplemental feeding, aeration or netting when necessary.

 

[rayner]

It's pointless Lambert speaking of the sport losing kids, apart from the few that emulate their fathers or older relatives that is.
Kids on the whole prefer to sit in a comfortable chair playing games, if that's what they like who's to stop them.
It's certainly not the fault of commercial fisheries they are lost to angling.
Without commercials a lot more anglers would find other interests, I for one am unable to fish the vast majority of venues so commercial style fisheries are a life blood to me and others I meet on fisheries I frequent.
It's about time that anglers in general stopped sniping at other styles of fishing that's not to their liking.
As for profit well the chaps who own these fish laden ponds are only in it for what they can get, profit drives everything these days.
No one works just for the sake of it and the only way to be able to do the things we need is profit.
With the amount of fisheries around me the ones that stand out are the ones that get more seats on bums as it were, inevitably they hold the heavier stocks.
Is it cruel I don't think so the fish seem in good shape bar for damage to mouths.

 

[thecrow]

It's about time that anglers in general stopped sniping at other styles of fishing that's not to their liking

Absolutely.

I find it hypocritical that anglers speak of stocking levels as cruel yet are happy to stick a hook in its mouth and remove it from its natural habitat for nothing more than their own gratification.

Anglers are anglers and the way an individual angler decides where and how to fish has little to do with others so long as his methods are legal.

 

[binka]

Each to their own I say.

Commies aren't my cup of tea but I'm certainly not knocking 'em or those that choose to fish 'em, I hope their popularity continues to increase and keep the rivers clear for me

On the question of stocking levels I'm of a very similar opinion to Sam, many "natural" waters have high levels of bio mass and they seem to get along fine on an unmanaged basis.

 

[wanderer]

I am sorry to say that i have to disagree with you lads, it reminds me of some of these Edwardian millionares that used to have wild specimens tethered for the gun with the object of filling their trophy walls, prawn sandwiches and pink champagne, the great white hunter in all his glory. Dave Lane has joined one of my local syndicates for his winter campaign, 60 fish in a deep weedy gravel pit, i hope he catches the big one, over 50, he will have earned it, a true hunter, if i ask him to join me on a day on Drayton, i can imagine his answer. Lakes that require the local fire brigade to keep them alive during hot weather and require feeding during the winter should not be on the radar of anyone calling himself an angler in my view, still thats just my view or is it.

 

[thecrow]

I am sorry to say that i have to disagree with you lads, it reminds me of some of these Edwardian millionares that used to have wild specimens tethered for the gun with the object of filling their trophy walls, prawn sandwiches and pink champagne, the great white hunter in all his glory. Dave Lane has joined one of my local syndicates for his winter campaign, 60 fish in a deep weedy gravel pit, i hope he catches the big one, over 50, he will have earned it, a true hunter, if i ask him to join me on a day on Drayton, i can imagine his answer. Lakes that require the local fire brigade to keep them alive during hot weather and require feeding during the winter should not be on the radar of anyone calling himself an angler in my view, still thats just my view or is it.

What a shame that you view your fellow angler in such a poor light merely because they fail to hold the same opinion as yourself, brother of the angle? mmmmm.

 

[steve2]

Lets not forget there are overstocked match lakes and overstocked specimen lakes. They are run for profit not for fish welfare. So it’s each to there own, if you want easy to catch fish go there. They are not for me and I will give up fishing when the time comes that I can’t fish my normal waters.

There is one place near me that I am sure the water level would drop by 2ft if the fish were taken out.

As far as the cruelty aspect in overstocking goes I have often wondered why the RSPCA have never got involved in dealing with such places in the beginning. But there again it is only fish we are talking about and they don’t count.

As far as losing young anglers goes, at my school there are none I know of, I never hear any talking about going fishing at the weekend. I can’t remember the last time I saw any young anglers. The junior side of the clubs I am a member of now has very little interest.

 

[laguna]

Most anglers and fishery owners view fish as a commodity, they're not pets and as long as fishing exists they will continue to be exploited for sport and profit. Like anything else, overstocking is probably a question of ethics, anglers have few concerns as evidenced if they continue to fish for them sticking hooks in their mouths.

Over stocking is of little or no importance to 'most' anglers. On the contrary, it's encouraged especially by paying match anglers for big bags and for others fed up playing the waiting game sitting behind buzzers.

I care for fish welfare as much as the next guy and agree to a point that too many are simply unsustainable in a closed environment, as long as oxygen levels support life and anglers feed them, most survive, they will be pursued and fished for. If a few die, its mostly down to mismanagement, not the fault of the paying angler.

My personal beef is that barbel shouldn't be stocked in stillwater and I avoid these venues but understand other anglers want them. Even though they don't breed, they survive and thrive in stillwater so the augment is lost.

 

[thecrow]

My personal beef is that barbel shouldn't be stocked in stillwater and I avoid these venues but understand other anglers want them. Even though they don't breed, they survive and thrive in stillwater so the augment is lost

Chris there have been claims from fishery owners that Barbel in their waters have bred, evidence for this can be shown in the form of fingerling Barbel although whether they are the offspring of fish already in the water or part of the latest stocking I wouldn't know but as the EA support the stocking of Barbel into still water I cant see what the fishery owner would have to gain from this claim.

Trout are claimed not to be able to breed in still water, nobody bats an eyelid at them being stocked into still water are we saying that Barbel deserve to be treated differently to other fish?

 

[steve2]

Why do the EA allow barbel to be stocked into still waters but not into new rivers? I know of clubs that would like barbel in their river fisheries but have been refused.

 

[sam vimes]

Why do the EA allow barbel to be stocked into still waters but not into new rivers? I know of clubs that would like barbel in their river fisheries but have been refused.

The current policy is that the EA won't allow any non-indigenous species to be stocked into a river. Nor will they allow such species to be stocked into still waters connected to, or close to, a watercourse. If a still water is totally landlocked and there's no danger of fish escaping to a nearby watercourse in extreme conditions, the rules are comparatively lax. Grass carp, sturgeon and catfish are all frequently found in still waters. Many of them have been stocked perfectly legally. If the rivers you are referring to haven't previously held barbel, it might explain the EA stance.

Strangely, they sometimes refuse to allow stockings of barbel into rivers that already hold them. I know of a body that's been trying to stock some barbel into a barbel river at their own expense. The EA have been refusing permission because it doesn't fit with their policy of stocking the tributaries.

 

[thecrow]

Why do the EA allow barbel to be stocked into still waters but not into new rivers? I know of clubs that would like barbel in their river fisheries but have been refused.

Steve, the EA have done so in the past whether they don't now I don't know, one thing that they do now is to continually stock small Barbel into rivers that for whatever reason cannot sustain their own stock without wanting to know the reasons why.

Interestingly the EA say that wild river fish should not be used to stock Barbel into still waters while at the same time using brood stock from the Trent to breed Barbel that might end up in a still water.

 

[laguna]

Chris there have been claims from fishery owners that Barbel in their waters have bred, evidence for this can be shown in the form of fingerling Barbel although whether they are the offspring of fish already in the water or part of the latest stocking I wouldn't know but as the EA support the stocking of Barbel into still water I cant see what the fishery owner would have to gain from this claim.

Trout are claimed not to be able to breed in still water, nobody bats an eyelid at them being stocked into still water are we saying that Barbel deserve to be treated differently to other fish?

I have heard the same second hand information. It just so happens that barbel prefer well oxygenated running water to breed, so perhaps in these instances these waters are spring fed? As to what a fishery owner has to gain from saying so is to ease conscience and justification to stock them when people like me don't agree. Either way, I'm not going to change minds by disagreeing so I'll just respect other opinions and continue to boycot these places.

There's a 3/4 acre fishery near me that puts in big rainbows and arctic char during the winter months and they seem to do okay but I don't know where they get them from, possibly Windermere?

 

[steve2]

The EA did in fact stock barbel into the Roding near to me, but following a pollution refused to stock them again because it had no history of barbel.
They then stocked them into sections of Suffolk Stour that had no barbel until till they stocked them.
The only other stockings of barbel in Essex appear to random ones. I know I did some back in the 60’s/70’s along with other fish. It happened all the time back then, fish appeared to grow wings.

 

[greenie62]

...There's a 3/4 acre fishery near me that puts in big rainbows and arctic char during the winter months and they seem to do okay but I don't know where they get them from, possibly Windermere?

Anyone seen the related Section30 documentation - should say on there!
The attitude and diligence of EA Fisheries Officers seems to vary tremendously from area to area - round here they try to keep an ear to the ground and will check-up on rumours quietly before doing an official 'knock'. They then serve a Notice to stop it happening again.

The one excuse they can't cope with is "they were stocked into a non-fished private aquarium pond and the floods caused them to be washed into the adjacent commercial fishery! - Honest, Guv!" mg:

Could be a 'spate' of such excuses coming up!

 

[no-one in particular]

A lot of upsides to commercials, a safe environment for many to fish in, easy access for disabled anglers, a good cheap day out, where can you go and spend all day for a tenner? Good facilities all round. With the lack of free water and clubs wanting £100-£200 up front an easier option for those without financial means. Some are in some of the most beautiful settings with abundant wild life.
I wouldn't say the fishing is easy, I have often blanked on commercials.
A good variety of fishing and species on offer on some of the bigger commercials.
I believe they are good for encouraging youngsters, I often see quite a few in them probably for some of the reasons above.
They are profit driven, I don't see many going bust, would that be a good thing if they did! Would angling lose a good resource if they did!
To look down on them and the anglers who fish them just from one perspective is unfair and everyone was a novice once upon a time. They may not be for very advanced anglers who have graduated beyond the novice stage and the average pleasure angler stage but commercials are ideal for many demographic groups. And many are happy to stay as pleasure anglers, are not looking to become top anglers and commercials offer them a life time ideal fishing experience.

Is it cruel? There must be an element of that but the fish are well fed, disease can be easily spotted and treated but I suspect there must be some stress caused by over stocking and putting some species in a unnatural environment. There are some downsides that may need addressing but overall I think they are extremely good and a welcome innovation.

I wonder if commercial barbel will start to breed and evolve a sub species that has adapted to breeding in still water one day. They might just end up looking like carp!

 

[wanderer]

There have always been day ticket fisheries Mark, not classed as out and out commercials, they do offer some anglers the opportunity to fish in relative comfort, lots of country parks and leisure venues like holiday parks. The full blown commie is a different animal, some guys do graduate to harder venues, most do not and these people sometimes kid themselves that all Carp fishing is easy. Alot of guys that fish for carp have also extensively fished for other species and still do. The trick is to get a balanced view of what angling is about, once youngsters have hauled the endless stream of hungry carp from a commy, you have little chance of taking him float fishing on a river or having a pleasure day on the canal.The expectation is raised that only carp have any value and all the skill sets that would have made him a better angler will never be taught. I never look down on other anglers but i shake my head in despair at some venues, the guys most likely to belittle other anglers are either commy carpers themselves that noddify anyone who doesnt fish for them, or the ultra cult brigade that have graduated from the commies and now feel superior, if they have done the apprenticeship this wouldnt happen. There are a lot of commies where i live and i have seen major fish kills over the years on quite a few, mostly down to overstocking, bad handling and bait pollution.