''Unusual baits''

[Derek Gibson]

Years ago none other than **** Walker wrote ''Unusual baits won't make up for bad angling''. I for one believed it then, and still do. But what is bad angling?

Is it for example the way one approaches a swim, the wrong presentation, all of which take time to develop and to know. So maybe there was a flaw in ****'s viewpoint. I say this because over the years I have met more than the odd angler who seemed to be more obsessed with baits than watercraft. And I have to say their results do not justify their obsession with baits.

I'd be interested in your opinions!

 

[no-one in particular]

I think its half and half. If a bad angler discovered an unusual bait that really works it could make up for his bad angling or lack of skills. But then when the bait got into the hands of skilled anglers they would eclipse his catches and make him look like a bad angler again.
I am not really sure what a bad angler is though.

 

[john step]

I think an unskilled angler might be a better description, whether through lack of experience or laziness.
Bad I would describe as someone who leaves litter, damages the fish by unhooking them on rough surfaces or breaks the rules etc.

As to unusual baits. I feel that any bait has its day on well fished waters until the fish can become wary.( Even the greedy perch seem to become fickle)
My favourite unusual bait is bread( to some anglers at least). I have been reliable told " you won't catch anything in here on that mate". Funny the fish have a different opinion.

A while ago I mention those wraps as a bread alternative to punch. I think it was Robtherake who said why, when bread works for punch. What I was forgetting to say was that I was not thinking of the tiny bits of punch that are used for roach on canals etc but the big gob fulls as per the Drennan punches for lumps.

 

[no-one in particular]

I have come across some unusual or say just different baits that no one has used and had great success on one or two of them. I would think of myself as just a middle angler, neither great skill or inexperienced but I must have looked like a very skilled angler at times when I was catching on my unusual experimental baits when no one else was..

 

[rayner]

What are we calling an unusual bait.
Is it a bait you have never used or is it a bait you've never seen anyone use.
I used to use a lot of custard powder paste but it's hardly unusual it's just another paste bait. It was very good for Tench on it's day, having said that I can feel a trip to the shop coming on.
I think I've used most things bait wise and reckon any so called unusual baits are only variations of other baits.
I really don't know what an unusual bait could be.
As for bad anglers that is probably a bad term. Bad angling I've been guilty of on numerous occasions , last Thursday was an episode of bad angling by me.
No matter what I did I couldn't catch a Crucian, now normally that wouldn't bother me apart from one major factor.
The bloke in the next swim had a couple of dozen Crucians so what I was doing was definitely bad.

I can't say I ever judge other anglers and call them bad anglers. Just because someone may appear to be doing something against what we believe to be right doesn't make them bad, perhaps less skilled may be.

 

[rayner]

What are we calling an unusual bait.
Is it a bait you have never used or is it a bait you've never seen anyone use.
I used to use a lot of custard powder paste but it's hardly unusual it's just another paste bait. It was very good for Tench on it's day, having said that I can feel a trip to the shop coming on.
I think I've used most things bait wise and reckon any so called unusual baits are only variations of other baits.
I really don't know what an unusual bait could be.
As for bad anglers that is probably a bad term. Bad angling I've been guilty of on numerous occasions , last Thursday was an episode of bad angling by me.
No matter what I did I couldn't catch a Crucian, now normally that wouldn't bother me apart from one major factor.
The bloke in the next swim had a couple of dozen Crucians so what I was doing was definitely bad.

I can't say I ever judge other anglers and call them bad anglers. Just because someone may appear to be doing something against what we believe to be right doesn't make them bad anglers, perhaps less skilled may be.

 

[peter crabtree]

I can't say I ever judge other anglers and call them bad anglers.

I do......

 

[rayner]

I do......

Why would it concern you what others are doing.
I don't even bother if the angler in the next peg is breaking rules or even has no licence.

 

[thecrow]

Who's to know what's right and what's wrong within angling certainly not me, I have seen big fish caught by anglers that could have been labelled as bad/poor anglers, I have also seen anglers that I thought were very good anglers blank on the same waters.

Does the best angler always catch the most or win whatever match they are in? I doubt it.

I think that RW did lots that was innovative and certainly changed some anglers thinking about catching large fish by design but it seems to me that he also had quite a large ego to be saying such things when nothing in angling is set in stone.

 

[Bob Hornegold]

Derek

Watercraft is everything in angling, bait comes a distance behind many other facets of angling !!

Bob

 

[binka]

I kind of get what **** Walker was saying.

An unusual bait is no substitute for bad angling but in a good angling situation?

I've caught barbel on banded pork scratchings but wondered if it was the approach and general circumstances and not the bait which tempted them, I often think they will eat anything that is presented in a way they want it at the right time.

Other times you can try much harder without the slightest of interest.

 

[barbelboi]

The 'wrong' bait in the right place is probably better than the 'right' bait in the wrong place..................

 

[robtherake]

I kind of get what **** Walker was saying.

An unusual bait is no substitute for bad angling but in a good angling situation?

I've caught barbel on banded pork scratchings but wondered if it was the approach and general circumstances and not the bait which tempted them, I often think they will eat anything that is presented in a way they want it at the right time.

Other times you can try much harder without the slightest of interest.

Banded bacon rind is my super-secret get-out-of-jail bait, one I really should try at the start of the session, rather than in desperation right at the end. Most times it's taken before it has chance to sink very far. TBH, there ain't usually very much left to use as bait, which curtails further experimentation.

 

[lee_j]

I had plenty of carp out of a tricky water when everyone else was blanking on boilies I'd found the patrol route and fished balls of maggot , not an unusual bait but not a usual bait for that particular water.

 

[laguna]

The bloke in the next swim had a couple of dozen Crucians so what I was doing was definitely bad.

Don't be too hard on yourself pal, if the bloke in the next peg catches more than you it could simply be a case of him holding the fish and feeding as they swam to his bait before yours. Seen this happen far too many times to be coincidence.

---------- Post added at 01:40 ---------- Previous post was at 01:32 ----------

Banded bacon rind is my super-secret get-out-of-jail bait, one I really should try at the start of the session, rather than in desperation right at the end. Most times it's taken before it has chance to sink very far. TBH, there ain't usually very much left to use as bait, which curtails further experimentation.

Smoked bacon rind often produces a few surprises Rob

 

[Derek Gibson]

The 'wrong' bait in the right place is probably better than the 'right' bait in the wrong place..................

True Jerry, but the more skillful angler, and by that I mean the more ''consistant'' angler will place his ''right bait in the right spot''.

Terry Lampard for example, watercraft personified.............

 

[no-one in particular]

Isn't watercraft a bit over rated, how many pages of a book on fishing would it fill?
Not even half of one-Keep quiet, keep low, look for likely places for fish, features, over hanging trees/bushes, underwater obstructions, read the water for creases, learn to cast efficiently, buy some good polaroids---and I have sort of run out of ideas. Now baits- not enough room because the subject is vast. Not that either are unimportant but I would put bait knowledge and presentation before water craft.
Then again-who would win? the bloke with good water craft knowledge and a lump of plain bread paste or the bloke with no water craft but an array of baits including some unusual ones and a good knowledge of how to present them.
Hmmmm-maybe we should have a competition.

 

[soft plastic]

Isn't watercraft a bit over rated, how many pages of a book on fishing would it fill?
Not even half of one-Keep quiet, keep ,low, look for likely places for fish, features, over hanging trees/bushes, underwater obstructions, read the water for creases, learn to cast efficiently---and I have sort of run out of ideas. Now baits- not enough room because the subject is vast. Not that either are unimportant but I would put bait knowledge and presentation before water craft.
Then again-who would win? the bloke with good water craft knowledge and a lump of plain bread paste or the bloke with no water craft but an array of baits including some unusual ones and a good knowledge of how to present them.
Hmmmm

What is watercraft? I would have thought that the first part of your post referred to watercraft, or at least my definition of it.

 

[barbelboi]

True Jerry, but the more skillful angler, and by that I mean the more ''consistant'' angler will place his ''right bait in the right spot''.

Terry Lampard for example, watercraft personified.............

Very true Derek, maybe I should have clarified the post better by adding that often the bait itself is not that important - it's presenting it in the right place that is ...........

Yes, a 20 minute chat with the late TL (particularly where chub were the topic) was quite an experience...

 

[greenie62]

Reading this thread a number of issues arise including bait-type, presentation and water-craft - I would add-in 'wind-craft' and 'bite-detection'.

The other day I tried using Marshmallow pieces - as a floating bait for rising Carp on a local water which has just banned floating Bread.
Scattered freebies attracted several 'rises' but a floating bait seemed to be ignored when presented via a 'controller float' - it was gusty and the line seemed to blow the bait at odds to the 'freebies'.
Switching to a long leader and ledger anchored the bait on the surface and seemed to get more attention.

The Carp however were 'attacking' the bait but not always 'biting' - the coarse angling equivalent of the fly-fishing 'short rise' - the solution was the same as well - Watch the Line for a 'pull'!

Only a half-hour experiment - but it produced 3 carp between 4lb and 9lb! - worth a go again when things get tricky!