New Carp Record

[maggot_dangler]

No Should not count .

The only fish that should count for records AFAIAK are wild caught not farm bred .

Or we can have 2 records one for proper wild caught fish and the other of far less importance farm fish ..

PG ...

 

[sam vimes]

No Should not count .

The only fish that should count for records AFAIAK are wild caught not farm bred .

Or we can have 2 records one for proper wild caught fish and the other of far less importance farm fish ..

PG ...

I understand the sentiment entirely, but how exactly do you define that?

Both The Bishop and Ravioli/Clarissa (the Redmire Pool record fish) could easily be considered farmed fish. As an aside, they were also imported continental fish too, from Holland. Donald Leney was a fish farmer. Perhaps it wasn't quite such a commercial operation to farm carp back then, but that's the only real difference. We now seem to consider the Leney/Galician carp to be some kind of pure bred English panacea, but it isn't the reality.

Pretty much every record carp there's ever been has been a farm bred fish. The only difference between them is that some were released into waters as relatively small fish. How long does a fish have to be in a water to be considered wild?

For good or ill, the reality is that there are only a very small number of UK waters where carp exist anything close to naturally. Even then, it's only a question of how long it's been since they were introduced. The numbers of waters where carp go on to breed (and proliferate) successfully and naturally is also surprisingly small.

 

[S-Kippy]

All this fuss over a carp. Some people really need to get a life.

 

[nogoodboyo]

Trial by Twitter. Oh joy.
The lad hasn't claimed the record.
Does the BRFC even exist anymore?
I looked into this story and all I could find was links to tabloid newspapers.
No facts. Nothing.

 

[sam vimes]

Does the BRFC even exist anymore?

It certainly did the last time one of the committee (on here) posted about it.

I looked into this story and all I could find was links to tabloid newspapers.
No facts. Nothing.

Naturally, it's just as easy to dismiss as a reliable source, but this makes for an interesting listen.The Carp Cast: The Carp Cast 57 Ft. Julian Cundiff

 

[binka]

I bet a 70lb carp would make a good sized bag of fertiliser... :wh

 

[nogoodboyo]

I'm of a certain age Sam.
When a potential record would be reported to the relevant authorities and verified if applicable. Nowadays claims of record fish are fast tracked regardless of tedious details such as the truth.

 

[sam vimes]

As I'm not on the committee, I wouldn't know if they operate any more quickly than they ever did, I somehow doubt it. The only thing that's really changed is that the world and his dog get to know about a potential record fish in no time at all. Such is the way of the modern world with instant communications, photography and social media. Whether a record is actually claimed, or officially accepted as a record, seems to be less and less relevant.

 

[robtherake]

Trial by Twitter. Oh joy.
The lad hasn't claimed the record.
Does the BRFC even exist anymore?
I looked into this story and all I could find was links to tabloid newspapers.
No facts. Nothing.

Plenty of Facebook links - the guy's page is open for public comment.

 

[nogoodboyo]

I'm not on Facebook Rob.
I guess that's my problem.

 

[robtherake]

I'm not on Facebook Rob.
I guess that's my problem.

I like to spread seditionary material to the masses, bud. Handy for keeping in touch with mates/relatives abroad, too.

 

[stevejay]

Death threats and his family have been targeted.......very sad state of affairs and doesn't portray anglers in a good light at all, irrespective of the pros (if there are any!) and cons over whether it is a record.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/18294...all-for-his-girlfriend-and-child-to-be-raped/

 

[maggot_dangler]

I understand the sentiment entirely, but how exactly do you define that?

Both The Bishop and Ravioli/Clarissa (the Redmire Pool record fish) could easily be considered farmed fish. As an aside, they were also imported continental fish too, from Holland. Donald Leney was a fish farmer. Perhaps it wasn't quite such a commercial operation to farm carp back then, but that's the only real difference. We now seem to consider the Leney/Galician carp to be some kind of pure bred English panacea, but it isn't the reality.

Pretty much every record carp there's ever been has been a farm bred fish. The only difference between them is that some were released into waters as relatively small fish. How long does a fish have to be in a water to be considered wild?

For good or ill, the reality is that there are only a very small number of UK waters where carp exist anything close to naturally. Even then, it's only a question of how long it's been since they were introduced. The numbers of waters where carp go on to breed (and proliferate) successfully and naturally is also surprisingly small.

Ok lets simplify this .

If the fish came from a stocked pool /pond no record contender if the fish came from open running water where it can go where it wants when it wants in other words to all intents Wild the yes record contender .

Not that i actually fish for carp althou i have caught some reasonable sized fish without intention of doing so , i have more interest in Silvers mainly roach & Rudd ..


PG ...

 

[sam vimes]

Ok lets simplify this .

If the fish came from a stocked pool /pond no record contender if the fish came from open running water where it can go where it wants when it wants in other words to all intents Wild the yes record contender .

Not that i actually fish for carp althou i have caught some reasonable sized fish without intention of doing so , i have more interest in Silvers mainly roach & Rudd ..


PG ...

So that essentially means no fish, of any species, from a stillwater could qualify. Where does that leave the many thousands of barbel, amongst many other species, that are stocked into our rivers every year? A vast number of salmon and brown trout are also artificially stocked into UK rivers. I'm not entirely sure that you've really thought this through.

As it stands, the records are perfectly simple, if it's caught on rod and line in the UK that's good enough, provided it's weighed and witnessed properly and is of the claimed species. That's as complicated as it needs to be. Only when you try and shoehorn a nebulous idea of merit (of the fish and/or the angler) in there do things get unnecessarily complicated. Does this fish have any particular merit? Probably not, but that's not what the record list is about.

Records are what they are, and have no real significance, unless you give them significance. I'd be delighted to catch a record fish, of any species, but I doubt I'd publicise it in any way. Do I want to catch this particular carp? No, no more than I wanted to catch any of the known big fish down the years. I won't be chasing round circuit waters after big fish with pet names, it's not my thing.

 

[Peter Jacobs]

This really is the story that "keeps on giving"

Now, Mr Mike Heylin (remember him from the early formation days of the trust?) is now saying this:

"If it was stocked above the weight, I am assuming the committee will reject it," he said.

"It is an amazing fish and I feel for the angler."

He is on the Committee who decide on these things too . . . . .

As I said before, I am not really all that interested in records, or who holds them; fish or angler, but, that said, I don't see anything in the Rules to support Mr Heylin's comments . . . . other than regarding game fish.

To my mind, we either have Rules regarding qualification (and stick to them) or we do not have them and it is left to people on a committee to decide among themselves.

As I said before, I see nothing in the rules that would support Mr Heylin's assertion.

 

[no-one in particular]

Not my area this but I would have thought any fish born naturally in any water was a wild fish. The off spring of any stocked or introduced fish would be wild. Just the way I see it but I suspect there will be a lot wrong with that.

As to death threats if its true, in a few posts lately I have tried to point out the differences in sea fishing compared to coarse fishing, not just do it down but as a way of comparative example and this is probably another area where the differences are. I don't know if this has ever happened in the sea fishing world but I think it unlikely.
There is a creeping malaise in the coarse fishing scene generally and this is a manifestation of it. Not good at all, an awfull thing.
Its funny I have a good mate who does not fish at all but I often tell him about these tales - barbel wars, threats etc and he is just shocked at it, his image he once had of gentle folk fishing, Izzack Walton, Mr Crabtree and all that is shattered; not that he ever would have ever bought a license but I am sure he never will.

 

[sam vimes]

The fun and games bemuse me too, but to suggest that it doesn't occur, to some extent, in sea fishing doesn't ring true. I tend not to take too much notice of any type of sea angling, but I'm sure I've seen similar issues surrounding sea fishing records. As they have differing line rating class records that's where the bitching seems to centre.

 

[oyster]

Interesting to see "imigrant carp" making the stories now, instead of imigrant carp anglers!

Nothing against the guy who caught it, a 70lb carp is an achievment in anyones book. For me this is highlights the reason why I have never targetted carp as a species. I can't say I would feel the same level of acheivement at catching this specimen as if I was the guy who caught the 50 from redmire all those years ago.

However none of them are native fish to our islands, I beleive even wild/grass carp were introduced, albeit hundreds of years ago. When can a carp be classed as a UK record? does it have to have a certificate of authenticity? perhaps proof of parantage? ;-)

The motivation of the many carp anglers seems to be to catch the biggest fish possible but to me catching a huge fish in an environment where they would not sustain their weight without the barrage of bait used by anglers is artifical. Over the coming years I think this is something that will happen more and more. I must admit I find the whole thing just a little bit silly.

Give me a 2lb roach or 1lb dace any day of the week..

 

[no-one in particular]

The fun and games bemuse me too, but to suggest that it doesn't occur, to some extent, in sea fishing doesn't ring true. I tend not to take too much notice of any type of sea angling, but I'm sure I've seen similar issues surrounding sea fishing records. As they have differing line rating class records that's where the bitching seems to centre.

Possibly, I am sure there has been disputes to claims etc and I have seen bitching on piers, old so and so reckons he caught one this big and fishing lines getting crossed that kind of thing. Line classes I have never taken much notice of, a bit out of what I do but I have never heard of death threats personally and the general bitching is more aimed at the fishing, not other anglers in the main. The comradie is still very good around sea anglers I have found. Its still there in coarse anglers but it has taken a turn for the worse over my lifetime; taken far too seriously these days by some.
A disputed validity of a record fish is natural but it should not be punishable by death! Bloody stupid carry on; I wonder what my non fishing buddy will make of this one. Sea angling is a bit of light relief these days in comparison..

 

[sam vimes]

Possibly, I am sure there has been disputes to claims etc and I have seen bitching on piers, old so and so reckons he caught one this big and fishing lines getting crossed that kind of thing. Line classes I have never taken much notice of, a bit out of what I do but I have never heard of death threats personally and the general bitching is more aimed at the fishing, not other anglers in the main. The comradie is still very good around sea anglers I have found. Its still there in coarse anglers but it has taken a turn for the worse over my lifetime; taken far too seriously these days by some.
A disputed validity of a record fish is natural but its not punishable by death-yet!

I find that camaraderie still exists in coarse angling on the banks. Where it tends to get a bit silly, and may not be remotely apparent, is online. People tend to say things that they wouldn't dream of on the bank. I don't believe that it's a reflection of any particular discipline of angling, just wider society. People of all walks of life seem rather prone to engaging typing fingers without engaging brain on amazingly disparate topics. Threats of physical harm seem to come alarmingly easily to so many people. Not wishing to excuse them, I'm not wholly convinced that the majority are intended as real threats. What's taken to be a threat is also not always as it seems either, especially when the press are involved.

I do suspect that real life confrontation might be a touch less in sea angling. I do feel that's essentially down to there being a lot more space to do your own thing. The fact that money rarely plays a big part in sea angling will also help. However, I've heard just as many anecdotes of punch ups on crowded piers or on charter boats as I have on inland waters. Bar it being a lot easier to escape from idiots on our coasts, I'm not entirely convinced that it's any more genteel.

Sadly, the only way I've seen to civilise angling on the bank is to somehow make it more exclusive. Terribly snobby, I know, but it works. I'm not just talking about making things expensive here. A vetting system, limited numbers, or even just a damned long walk can do it. It's pretty hard to fall out with someone hundreds of yards away.