Float Shotting

[sam vimes]

Just because the HDYGO thread seems to be getting a little swamped.

I'm generally fishing fast rivers where the fish seem indifferent to bigger shot. The fish don't usually have time to be overly fussy. Large olivettes and AA/BB bulk shotting is often the order of the day unless I visit slower stretches to fish for dace and roach. I well understand the value of the slow/controlled/natural fall of bait that more complex shotting patterns can give. However, it didn't take too long for the teenage me to work out that shirt buttons with number six shot was a bit of a waste of time.

I'm not shy of using bulk shotting and olivettes in any situation where I'm fishing for bottom feeding fish. I'll do it on rivers and stillwaters or when using top and bottom floats and wagglers.

I'll usually work on the KISS principle and reckon that a good ninety percent of my float fishing involves bulk shotting. The exceptions invariably involve fishing for the smaller species up in the water or when they've got fussy. Shirt button or single number eight dropper (or micro-swivel) are the only real alternatives I bother with. As far as I'm concerned, an awful lot of the really fancy shotting patterns are just too fussy for real life and don't offer enough to be really worthwhile.

 

[binka]

For the stick i'll generally go shirt button style with 4's, 6's, 8's etc but that's mainly on slow to medium paced swims where I'm getting a decent run at it.

For fast water or buoyant baits like crust i'll go to Avon style bulk shotting.

The one strange thing I've picked up over the last couple of seasons is that I can run a stick through with shirt button shotting and think that my bait is going through on or just off the deck yet when I pick up the second rod shotted with Avon style shotting it will often pick up a barbel first run through which tells me my other rig, which is set to the same depth and catching chub, roach and perch etc, is not really behaving how I imagine it to be doing.

 

[john step]

Yes the two above posts illustrate the difference between top and bottom shotting on vastly differing venues.

Where Sam fishes you simply could not get away with delicate shirt button shotting.

Where I believe Binka fishes, the water would be much deeper and although quite forceful, nothing like the former.

Where my formative learning to trot was on the Thames and Lee its a step down further again in flow and power.

Then there are many waters in between these.

Those articles about shotting patterns with those diagrams can only be a starting place which can be adapted or disregarded for a better approach to the anglers water.

 

[tigger]

If I have enough BB's left (as I loose them as soon as I get the bast's) I like to bulk with them as they give me a better spread if I do split 'em up. AAA's with a BB dropper are good if I know i'm gonn'a be bulked for the duration of the session.
I never use olivets as your pretty much stuck with a bulk shot that can't be adjusted to suite the session.

Best shot i've found is Anchor double cut ....or is shot choice for another thread to kill the crimbo boardom lol

 

[john step]

Best shot i've found is Anchor double cut ....or is shot choice for another thread to kill the crimbo boardom lol

If you can get them, try ZLT shot. Simply the best.

 

[tigger]

If you can get them, try ZLT shot. Simply the best.

I've used them John...have you used anchor double cut? If you don't drop 'em like I do they can be re-used lots of times and they slide up and down superior mono's (Daiwa Sensor) without doing any noticeable damage .

 

[Chefster]

If im fishing pellet,i use a strung bulk of 8,s or 9,s or a combination,fished very positive ,bottom dropper 3 inches from hook,then spaced at 2 inch intervals...for maggot,either a bulk of no 11,s and 2 no 11 droppers,or strung bulk of 11,s,obviously this is for commercial venues....When i fished the rivers,i usually used big heavy positive bulks,Gazza

 

[peterjg]

I fish the Kennet a lot and it is quite pacey. I have tried all sorts of shotting patterns and now use bulk shot (usually AAs) 24 inches from the hook, it works well. I am probably wrong but sometimes I try a dropper shot (no 1 or bb) a foot from the hook and I can't tell if it makes any difference what so ever? It could well be that the often recommended dropper shot is unnecessary and this would also apply to fancy shotting diagrams?

In the warmer months you need to get the hookbait down fast to beat the bleak and to be able to hold back effectively.

 

[john step]

I've used them John...have you used anchor double cut? If you don't drop 'em like I do they can be re-used lots of times and they slide up and down superior mono's (Daiwa Sensor) without doing any noticeable damage .

I have not used those. Willing to try though.
I have found the ZLT easy to loosen and move with no damage to my SENSOR D everybodies favourite)

---------- Post added at 22:28 ---------- Previous post was at 22:16 ----------

It could well be that the often recommended dropper shot is unnecessary and this would also apply to fancy shotting diagrams?

In the warmer months you need to get the hookbait down fast to beat the bleak and to be able to hold back effectively.

Difficult isn't it. Trying to get over exactly how you approach shotting. Sometimes I think its more of a case of intuition.
Sometimes you feel its right to fish bulk. Sometimes you feel to spread out to give a rise and fall when held hard back on a very over depth set up and inch your way down the swim.

AND OFFTIMES I GET IT COMPLETELY BL**DY WRONG.

 

[Philip]

Just because the HDYGO thread seems to be getting a little swamped.

I'm generally fishing fast rivers where the fish seem indifferent to bigger shot. The fish don't usually have time to be overly fussy. Large olivettes and AA/BB bulk shotting is often the order of the day unless I visit slower stretches to fish for dace and roach. I well understand the value of the slow/controlled/natural fall of bait that more complex shotting patterns can give. However, it didn't take too long for the teenage me to work out that shirt buttons with number six shot was a bit of a waste of time.

I'm not shy of using bulk shotting and olivettes in any situation where I'm fishing for bottom feeding fish. I'll do it on rivers and stillwaters or when using top and bottom floats and wagglers.

I'll usually work on the KISS principle and reckon that a good ninety percent of my float fishing involves bulk shotting. The exceptions invariably involve fishing for the smaller species up in the water or when they've got fussy. Shirt button or single number eight dropper (or micro-swivel) are the only real alternatives I bother with. As far as I'm concerned, an awful lot of the really fancy shotting patterns are just too fussy for real life and don't offer enough to be really worthwhile.

I was about to start a thread on exactly the same thing for exactly the same reason.

I basically only use shot to get my bait down to where I want it. I don’t think using shot to control the decent of your bait to match your free offerings makes any sense at all. Take the shirt button style of shotting for example we often see diagrams of in the mags and its always accompanied by the explanation that you use it for a natural descent of the bait through the water. I just don’t see it and I recon its flawed logic & I’ll explain why.

Throw say a maggot in the water & watch it sink. Now put a maggot on a hook with even a tiny shot above it and put that in the water. The maggot on the hook will sink more quickly. So how can something like shirt button style shotting possibly make your bait behave naturally ? Its just not going to happen is it and adding shot will make the bait behave unnaturally at least with “solid” baits.

The only way I can see it working is if you using buoyant baits such as bread crust and your feeding mashed bread then in that case your hook bait may float more than your free offerings so adding shot may make it sink at the same rate but I still recon the chance of you matching the same sink rate as your free offering is very small indeed. I am not saying the fancy shotting patterns dont work, of course they do, but I think its not always for the reasons we think.

So for me, shot are simply to get the bait where I want it , not to match the decent of the free offerings.

 

[binka]

In the case of shirt button style shotting it's not always about the fall of the bait, which can be determined further by holding back as it goes down to match the rate of the free offerings.

It's also about how the bait rises when held back especially in steadier flowing swims where a bulk just wouldn't have the same effect.

I'm off to do a bit on a lake right now, with bulked shot around the float and droppers over the last third unless the tow is too strong and I have to bulk at or below halfway with a dropper or three to register the bite depending on how low the bulk is and how much over depth I'm fishing.

As with the lift method I think there's some good logic and sound practical use in certain shotting patterns if they're used in the right swim and the right conditions.

A bit like those occasions when adjusting the bottom dropper results in a whole load of bites instead of scratching around... What's that all about then?

Now there's a whole new can of worms...

 

[Philip]

In the case of shirt button style shotting it's not always about the fall of the bait, which can be determined further by holding back as it goes down to match the rate of the free offerings.

It's also about how the bait rises when held back especially in steadier flowing swims where a bulk just wouldn't have the same effect.

I'm off to do a bit on a lake right now, with bulked shot around the float and droppers over the last third unless the tow is too strong and I have to bulk at or below halfway with a dropper or three to register the bite depending on how low the bulk is and how much over depth I'm fishing.

As with the lift method I think there's some good logic and sound practical use in certain shotting patterns if they're used in the right swim and the right conditions.

A bit like those occasions when adjusting the bottom dropper results in a whole load of bites instead of scratching around... What's that all about then?

Now there's a whole new can of worms...

Yes thats a good point about holding back can also impact the rate of fall although again I think it would be incredibly difficult get it spot on to match the free offerings !

The point about the bottom shot...I am no mega float angler but I always assumed having the bottom shot closer to the hook means there is less "free play" before the fish is pulling against a tight line to the float so it registers quicker. If the bottom shot is a long way from the hook and bait is still falling through the water then there is slack line still to be taken up before the bite registers to the float. I am explaining that right ?

So on some occasions having quicker registration might help, while on others having more free play before the fish feels resistance might be better.

Hopefully you get what I mean

 

[lutra]

For the stick i'll generally go shirt button style with 4's, 6's, 8's etc but that's mainly on slow to medium paced swims where I'm getting a decent run at it.

For fast water or buoyant baits like crust i'll go to Avon style bulk shotting.

The one strange thing I've picked up over the last couple of seasons is that I can run a stick through with shirt button shotting and think that my bait is going through on or just off the deck yet when I pick up the second rod shotted with Avon style shotting it will often pick up a barbel first run through which tells me my other rig, which is set to the same depth and catching chub, roach and perch etc, is not really behaving how I imagine it to be doing.

Unless your fishing a very heavy shirt button, it will just waft about in water with a bit of flow. You may fined your depth by hitting bottom, but it don't mean its staying there.

I get a few barbel fishing off bottom for dace and things at times, but generally like you find they want it hard on and slower really (bulk shotted). If you try and slow a shirt button down it will just want to lift.

 

[john step]

I don't get my head around the following entirely but I can remember Walker having a bit of disagreement with others in the AT about where shot should be on the line.

He said it didn't matter where the bulk was because once the inertia to sink the float to the desired amount, the only effort required by the fish to sink the tip would be the same whether the float was a heavy one or a light one.
It was the tip that counted as the weight had already done the job of sinking the float to that point.

I couldn't see it at the time as that was not taking into account any sideways pull by the fish ie not straight downwards.
A fish would have to pull against water pressure to move a swan shot for instance sideways hanging under a waggler.

Just thought I would throw that into the mix.. Happy Christmas.

 

[tigger]

I don't get my head around the following entirely but I can remember Walker having a bit of disagreement with others in the AT about where shot should be on the line.

He said it didn't matter where the bulk was because once the inertia to sink the float to the desired amount, the only effort required by the fish to sink the tip would be the same whether the float was a heavy one or a light one.
It was the tip that counted as the weight had already done the job of sinking the float to that point.

I couldn't see it at the time as that was not taking into account any sideways pull by the fish ie not straight downwards.
A fish would have to pull against water pressure to move a swan shot for instance sideways hanging under a waggler.

Just thought I would throw that into the mix.. Happy Christmas.

I think Walker was right, at least when i'm fishing even a minnow pulls my float under just as a barbel would.

 

[trotter2]

It would be interesting if someone did some good underwater filming of how shoting effects the presentation underwater ,on running water.
It would be worth its weight in gold to actually show dynamically what's happening rather than some diagrams in a book.
It may be difficult to capture the moment in precise detail but not impossible with today's quality filming underwater.. I wish someone would do this . It would answer a lot of questions.

Merry Christmas from trotter2

 

[dicky123]

Agree Trotter.

I'm only just getting into trotting again. I may be wrong, but gauge my float fishing shooting by " if my float goes under I'm catching bottom" that's it being shirt button, or bulked.

Like Steve mentioned, I too have fished with the former, only to change and found bulked catches me a barbel. Despite thinking I'm on the bottom with the other shotting.

If after barbel ( most likely ) in swims over six feet, I'll bulk, if under its spread out. Is this a good maxim? Thoughts anyone?

Like Sam I like Olivettes as the main shotting. It gets down quickly, but you can still have no 8 s say under it for a fall of the bait so if the barbel are just off bottom it catches.

But I have to catch a lot more barbel on the float to have any long term views. Happy to learn from those that do catch plenty on the trot.:wh

Richard.

 

[tigger]

It would be interesting if someone did some good underwater filming of how shoting effects the presentation underwater ,on running water.
It would be worth its weight in gold to actually show dynamically what's happening rather than some diagrams in a book.
It may be difficult to capture the moment in precise detail but not impossible with today's quality filming underwater.. I wish someone would do this . It would answer a lot of questions.

Merry Christmas from trotter2

I have watched what happens lots of times when the river is clear. I've watched chub suck my bait in and spit it out without giving the slightest registration on the float and giving me no chance of striking and hooking them. Very often when trotting the float goes under when a fish takes in the bait and the line tightens up with the flow rather than because the fish has pulled it under, especially when dragging bottom or fishing quite close to the bottom.

 

[lutra]

Agree Trotter.

I'm only just getting into trotting again. I may be wrong, but gauge my float fishing shooting by " if my float goes under I'm catching bottom" that's it being shirt button, or bulked.

Like Steve mentioned, I too have fished with the former, only to change and found bulked catches me a barbel. Despite thinking I'm on the bottom with the other shotting.

If after barbel ( most likely ) in swims over six feet, I'll bulk, if under its spread out. Is this a good maxim? Thoughts anyone?

Like Sam I like Olivettes as the main shotting. It gets down quickly, but you can still have no 8 s say under it for a fall of the bait so if the barbel are just off bottom it catches.

But I have to catch a lot more barbel on the float to have any long term views. Happy to learn from those that do catch plenty on the trot.:wh

Richard.

Most of my summer barbel trotting swims are only 3 or 4 feet deep, but bulk shotting still out scores shirt button for me.

Barbel are built to feed and root about on the bottom and IMO 99% of the time thats where they want to be.

Even in shallow summer barbel runs, the water on the bottom is flowing much slower than the surface water. The only way to fish that slower bottom water where the barbel are at the right speed with a float is to slow your float down. Slowing (holding back) shirt button lifts your hook bait unless your using a very heavy float.

---------- Post added at 10:39 ---------- Previous post was at 10:18 ----------

A float bulk shotted often tavels (unheld back) a bit slow than when set to the same depth and shirt button shotted. Those shot higher up catch the faster water.

 

[dicky123]

Makes sense. Also it's a lot more technical than 5oz of lead holding bottom