Commercial-Club anglers type of question.

[no-one in particular]

Do anglers who regularly fish commercials belong to fishing clubs? I am just wondering how it works. Club anglers must stick to their club waters with maybe an occasional foray on a commercial and commercial anglers wouldn’t bother with clubs as it’s an extra expense. Could all these commercial anglers, which appears to me to be an awful lot of them, attracted by the carp mostly which seems to be the most popular branch these days; could they be attracted to clubs if it was made more attractive for them to do so.
Are clubs missing out on the biggest source of income in some way? Are they ignoring this at thieir peril. I see many empty club waters even on a sunny weekend when the commercials are sometimes packed. Well often packed to be honest, somethings not happening. I mean club waters have good carp waters but its the commercials where they largely go, why?

 

[rayner]

Stocking I suppose could be the draw, plus toilets, café and tackle shops.
All make fishing very easy. Not forgetting parking behind or close to pegs.
Quite a good number of anglers buy season tickets effectively dropping the cost of fishing.
Where I fish it's £95, that is soon used up fishing two or three times a week.
Buying a season ticket could be deemed as a type of club without all the rigmarole of meetings and work parties.

 

[sam vimes]

I believe that there is less and less crossover between club members and out and out commercials. They usually have quite different types of water. There are clubs out there that attempt to compete. I know one club that has what is effectively a muddy hole commercial match puddle venue. I know others that have bought land, dug holes and filled them with fish. There are also clubs with gravel pits with big carp, tench, bream etc. The latter can often do quite well with cost conscious carpers that can't afford the £20+ per night that the big carp commercials usually charge.

Whether clubs can genuinely compete with commercials on a significant scale is debateable. Unless they can afford a significant financial outlay to develop the water, probably not. Clubs renting a stillwater aren't likely to spend many thousands (tens and even hundreds of thousands) to buy the huge stock levels typical of modern match commies, unless they have a very secure long term lease and finances. Realistically, if a club is going to try to take on a commie, it needs to own a suitable stillwater and have significant cash reserves for stock. They are also likely to have to sell day tickets. That inevitably involves someone selling them and having to police the venue extensively. Neither are insurmountable problems, but may not be a realistic proposition for many clubs. I suspect that my own club could probably sell all its' assets, buy a pond, fill it with fish and compete with a commie or two. It would probably end up with a sound long term future. However, if it did so, the vast majority of the members and committee would no longer be part of the club.

The truth is that clubs generally have flowing waters and more natural stillwaters. They attract (or not) the kind of anglers that appreciate that kind of fishing. Sadly, a lot of anglers that appreciate that are ageing and steadily dwindling. Some club old timers barely fish, it becomes cost effective for them to fish a £10 commie venue for the once or twice a year they fish. Others suffer health issues and no longer wish to walk miles of river or fish a stillwater in the middle of nowhere with no facilities. Good luck to them.
There is some crossover from commies to more natural waters, but many are quite content to keep fishing them. They don't want to go to a place where there's a good chance of catching nowt. They like their on site café, toilet and tackle shop. Good luck to them too, but there's not much danger of changing their minds.

 

[no-one in particular]

I believe that there is less and less crossover between club members and out and out commercials. They usually have quite different types of water. There are clubs out there that attempt to compete. I know one club that has what is effectively a muddy hole commercial match puddle venue. I know others that have bought land, dug holes and filled them with fish. There are also clubs with gravel pits with big carp, tench, bream etc. The latter can often do quite well with cost conscious carpers that can't afford the £20+ per night that the big carp commercials usually charge.

Whether clubs can genuinely compete with commercials on a significant scale is debateable. Unless they can afford a significant financial outlay to develop the water, probably not. Clubs renting a stillwater aren't likely to spend many thousands (tens and even hundreds of thousands) to buy the huge stock levels typical of modern match commies, unless they have a very secure long term lease and finances. Realistically, if a club is going to try to take on a commie, it needs to own a suitable stillwater and have significant cash reserves for stock. They are also likely to have to sell day tickets. That inevitably involves someone selling them and having to police the venue extensively. Neither are insurmountable problems, but may not be a realistic proposition for many clubs. I suspect that my own club could probably sell all its' assets, buy a pond, fill it with fish and compete with a commie or two. It would probably end up with a sound long term future. However, if it did so, the vast majority of the members and committee would no longer be part of the club.

The truth is that clubs generally have flowing waters and more natural stillwaters. They attract (or not) the kind of anglers that appreciate that kind of fishing. Sadly, a lot of anglers that appreciate that are ageing and steadily dwindling. Some club old timers barely fish, it becomes cost effective for them to fish a £10 commie venue for the once or twice a year they fish. Others suffer health issues and no longer wish to walk miles of river or fish a stillwater in the middle of nowhere with no facilities. Good luck to them.
There is some crossover from commies to more natural waters, but many are quite content to keep fishing them. They don't want to go to a place where there's a good chance of catching nowt. They like their on site café, toilet and tackle shop. Good luck to them too, but there's not much danger of changing their minds.

I think your right, its convenient, good fish stocks more often than not, amenities, safety etc and that it's easier on the pocket for some or at least in a pay as you go way. And I see your reasons why clubs cannot compete with that. I just wonder if the commies are getting the lion share of anglers money and if that could be redressed but it probably couldn't.As you say, its easier to supply all that in one complex with the funds that come with it than waters spread out. I imagine it must have had an impact on clubs as the commies have multiplied.

 

[thecrow]

This is quiet a timely thread for me as I have been looking for a commercial or day ticket water within reasonable travelling distance from home where I can purchase a season permit at a decent price, so far I haven't found what I am looking for but I am sure there is somewhere out there

The reason I have been looking is that the club water I belong to has made the area I like to fish out of bounds I fished there as I know I could catch quality roach there but now as lots of other swims are beyond my physical capabilities I will probably not join for next season.

This club used to have a waiting list to join it but now it relies on income from carp anglers that they at one time didn't want on the water, most of the older long time members have drifted away because of how the club is now run, those that still fish have reluctantly gone to commercials. I will be just another one of them

 

[Mark Wintle]

Some of my local clubs have access to local commercials so i do fish them, especially in the winter (during floods) and spring.

 

[no-one in particular]

This is quiet a timely thread for me as I have been looking for a commercial or day ticket water within reasonable travelling distance from home where I can purchase a season permit at a decent price, so far I haven't found what I am looking for but I am sure there is somewhere out there

The reason I have been looking is that the club water I belong to has made the area I like to fish out of bounds I fished there as I know I could catch quality roach there but now as lots of other swims are beyond my physical capabilities I will probably not join for next season.

This club used to have a waiting list to join it but now it relies on income from carp anglers that they at one time didn't want on the water, most of the older long time members have drifted away because of how the club is now run, those that still fish have reluctantly gone to commercials. I will be just another one of them

I remember you saying this a couple of weeks ago, clubs and commercials probably have to aim for the most money and this must be carp, however, I think some cut their noses off a bit, I know some commercials that offer something different along side the carp and clubs should think about that as well. Good luck in finding a few nice fat roach, quite partial to them myself, hope you find what your looking for, there must be something.

---------- Post added at 15:13 ---------- Previous post was at 15:10 ----------

Some of my local clubs have access to local commercials so i do fish them, especially in the winter (during floods) and spring.

I think most people do on a casual basis but the die hard commercial angler seems different. I have met many such anglers, they love the place and never think of fishing anywhere else, never go to a river or join a club, they have found their ideal and stick to it. Why not, how many of us always looking for greener grass.

 

[peterjg]

Slightly off subject so I apologise in advance but the few commercials that I have fished have been horrible. Yes, clean banks, easy parking but the 'fishing' was laughably easy. 'Anglers' wait outside for the gates to open and stop in time for the gates to be locked then they sit around this muddy hole in the ground and spend all day facing each other! They were so grossly overstocked that it would take more skill not to catch - angling is not meant to be like that!

Those that have never fished other than commercials ought to try proper fishing, where you don't get a bite except from signal crayfish, you have to walk literally miles to a swim, there are no toilets, up to your eyeballs in nettles and cowpats and bulls, wasp nests, otters, mink, no safe parking, no flat swims just a slippery hill next to the water, boaters, canoeists, stray lunatics - now tell me where would you rather fish? You can't beat a club water.

Seriously though, the few commercials that I have fished have been awful!

 

[itsfishingnotcatching]

Strikes me that fishing is a recreational activity and we all fish in the style and at the location that we enjoy the most. Having started on commercials and moved on to rivers because it's what "floats my boat" I don't have any problems with those who choose to fish match pools, canals, natural waters on club or commercial venues, if that's what you enjoy, carry on. It may be hard for those who have always fished rivers to find alternative venues when age or health issues prevent them from accessing steep and slippery banks where once they cast a line, it is a fact that at some point we will all have to face up to this dilemma. I'd rather have the option of fishing somewhere than not fishing at all and I know that point is getting closer with every birthday.

 

[john step]

Some of my local clubs have access to local commercials so i do fish them, especially in the winter (during floods) and spring.

Yes easier waters can be a boon in cold weather. Its sometimes nice just to get bites.

I think there are awful commies and some others that look more akin to traditional waters although more heavily stocked. Age and physicality must play a big deciding factor for many.

 

[steve w]

Slightly off subject so I apologise in advance but the few commercials that I have fished have been horrible. Yes, clean banks, easy parking but the 'fishing' was laughably easy. 'Anglers' wait outside for the gates to open and stop in time for the gates to be locked then they sit around this muddy hole in the ground and spend all day facing each other! They were so grossly overstocked that it would take more skill not to catch - angling is not meant to be like that!

Those that have never fished other than commercials ought to try proper fishing, where you don't get a bite except from signal crayfish, you have to walk literally miles to a swim, there are no toilets, up to your eyeballs in nettles and cowpats and bulls, wasp nests, otters, mink, no safe parking, no flat swims just a slippery hill next to the water, boaters, canoeists, stray lunatics - now tell me where would you rather fish? You can't beat a club water.


Seriously though, the few commercials that I have fished have been awful!

The first part just about sums it up for me also,commercials just aren't for me.
Maybe because I've been fishing since the early 60's and brought up in a different way,I had a season back in the late 90's on a local comm. and got bored with catching carp so easily.I just went and caught,and that was it.And I'm not the greatest of anglers and I definitely don't have the ability that the commercial match men have,I do appreciate the level of skill required to be successful in those situations.
Fishing is great like that,so many different aspects to it,each to there own as they say.Im in my 60's and like to walk miles of my local small river "attempting"
to catch the odd chub and barbel,I do often think how much longer will I be able to cover so much river,it seems to get harder by the week?,but I'm sure I won't end up on a commercial.
I do look back on my match fishing days of the 70's and 80's thinking how hard it was to scrape a couple of pound of "bits" on a hard day,compared to today's matches where if you catch 50lb it's hardly worth weighing in?.
Commercials,great for those that like that sort of thing,and my angling club caters for all luckily.

 

[bracket]

Quite an evocative thread this one. Whilst my personal preference is for rivers and silver fish, with the possible exception of a swimming pool and a hole in the ice, I must have fished every type of venue it is possible to fish. I have never had any reservations, inhibitions or hang ups with this. My philosophy being: You deal with what's in front of you and adjust your approach accordingly. That's not to say I don't have my favorite venues, I do. But the bottom line for me is, that I am fishing, and that takes preference over everything else (well apart form ale and fornication). Pete.

---------- Post added at 21:11 ---------- Previous post was at 21:01 ----------

 

[no-one in particular]

When ever this type of thread comes up its always the commercials are ugly, unnatural, mud holes in the ground, full of pigs, fish are dead easy to catch--sort of thing; or at least that seems to be the majority view but hold on:-.
I explored many commercials in a 5 year period once, maybe 20 or 30, and this type of description rarely fitted the bill. The vast majority where beautiful places to sit, well designed to make you feel you were in a very natural place, where I struggled to catch on many occasions and often had to do some serious thinking on how I fished; in fact I had to develop many different styles of fishing and baits thereof. It was some of the most challenging fishing I ever had the pleasure to take on. Many had different species, species only type of lakes, not just carp or just good mixed fisheries and the fauna and flora was often exceptional; the prices were always good and exceptional value for what was in front and all around me.
I discovered a fabulous wide variety of species and types of fishing including some bits of river where they existed on one or two of them.
In fact this was one of the happiest, the most interesting and rewarding periods of my entire fishing life.
One or two would have been top contenders to fish for the rest of my life if I had to make that choice.

 

[thecrow]

I have to agree Mark and its that type of place I have been looking for, found some that fit the bill but don't do season membership and I don't want to keep paying daytickets I just want to go when I want to be that all day or just a few hours DTs could work out expensive. I have also found some that do season membership but I don't like the looks of them, I am sure I will find what I want if I keep looking though.

I don't understand this "oh they are to easy" is angling supposed to be hard? all waters can be difficult at times and need a bit of working out, fish for the different species in there or for the larger fish in the water there are always different things to try unless the angler is a one trick pony and unwilling to learn.

In some cases (mine included) there may come a time when a commercial is the only place an angler can fish, its getting very near to that time for me with access and steep river banks being dangerous for me, I don't mind falling in but would like someone there to pull me out as I drift by so if a commercial is all I have left that's ok I am still getting out fishing.

 

[108831]

I've been a season ticket holder on Mallory Park and Makin's,though dug out,there were features and in particular Makin's was one of the finest fisheries i've fished,the variety of species available,in decent sizes,made it really exciting,not knowing what was coming next,as Mark said,some of my most enjoyable times in angling and i'm afraid not always that easy either,needing a certain amount of skill(for want of a better word)to amass a catch...

 

[thecrow]

I've been a season ticket holder on Mallory Park and Makin's,though dug out,there were features and in particular Makin's was one of the finest fisheries i've fished,the variety of species available,in decent sizes,made it really exciting,not knowing what was coming next,as Mark said,some of my most enjoyable times in angling and i'm afraid not always that easy either,needing a certain amount of skill(for want of a better word)to amass a catch...

Its somewhere I have looked at Alan as its only 10 miles from where I live its a bit pricey for me at the moment but I wouldn't mind fishing the big lake while some club motorcycle racing is on, 2 for the price of 1 for me

 

[no-one in particular]

I have to agree Mark and its that type of place I have been looking for, found some that fit the bill but don't do season membership and I don't want to keep paying daytickets I just want to go when I want to be that all day or just a few hours DTs could work out expensive. I have also found some that do season membership but I don't like the looks of them, I am sure I will find what I want if I keep looking though.

I don't understand this "oh they are to easy" is angling supposed to be hard? all waters can be difficult at times and need a bit of working out, fish for the different species in there or for the larger fish in the water there are always different things to try unless the angler is a one trick pony and unwilling to learn.

In some cases (mine included) there may come a time when a commercial is the only place an angler can fish, its getting very near to that time for me with access and steep river banks being dangerous for me, I don't mind falling in but would like someone there to pull me out as I drift by so if a commercial is all I have left that's ok I am still getting out fishing.

Here in the South East I was spoiled for choice and I did find some fabulous places, I don't know your area at all, I know your a lot further up north so it may be different up there. I would suggest trying out a few on the day ticket just to see if you come across one you really like, nothing beats actually fishing them than just from websites or recommendations. And they might be a choice just to fish now and then apart from a regular one where you may find the fee set up better but the fishing not so good. Its certainly worth having a look at a few properly in my opinion, I came across a few real gems. One or two involved traveling but me and some mates organized visits as much as we could.
Certainly health is a question, them bones don't get any younger, I found many commercials easy for this, although nice flat carved out swims right next to a path etc , still very nice to be with well thought out planting and positioning.
Keep looking, just a thought, where some commercials don't offer a yearly thing, why not make them an offer, email maybe, they can only say no. I found the managers of these commercials very amenable people more often than not, they will go a long way to help you so, you never know.
I remember once, one stopped a gap being boarded up at the far end of a complex just because for me and my mate used it as a short cut from the Train Station.