Would you want to.

[steve2]

I have looked into this and after reading the small print gave up on the idea. I know of someone who took on a water but forgot about access rights across adjoining land.

I was also very tempted when some small local carp pits came up for sale but it would have meant removing all of the carp and starting again. I don’t want carp in any water I would own.

 

[Derek Gibson]

One thing to emerge from this thread seems to be the lack of interest in having ''Carp'' present in your dream fishery. That would suggest that Carp as a species have become so invasive that they are being demonised.

Such a contrast over the last fifty years when anglers around the country were busting their nuts trying to locate such waters, especially up North.

I know this to be a fact because I was one of them.

Are they really so pervasive?

 

[steve2]

The only carp I would have would be true crucians. The fishing would be built around these plus Tench, Rudd, Roach and Perch. This would bring back memories of places where I use to fish. If the water was big enough some pike.

 

[thecrow]

Are they really so pervasive

Imo no, commercials stock them imo because they can withstand poor water and oxygen levels better than other species and so with the rise of the commercial so comes the rise of the carp.

There has come about over the last few years a kind of fish snobbery where the carp is derided by anglers that don't fish for them, indeed some members on here take great delight in doing it why I have no idea unless they believe that "their species" are more difficult to catch so making them appear to be a better angler.

There is of coarse the other side of the coin with some that fish for carp being dismissive of anything other than a carp, its something I have witnessed myself on a Nene valley syndicate.

Without the rise of the carp population I believe that angler numbers would have fallen even more than they have and that tackle manufacturers/shops would have gone to the wall leaving other anglers without the tackle and shops we all need.

---------- Post added at 10:47 ---------- Previous post was at 10:43 ----------

The only carp I would have would be true crucians. The fishing would be built around these plus Tench, Rudd, Roach and Perch.

See how different anglers can be? I view most of them as baits for other fish species

 

[PH]

As I near retirement, I’ve been looking for a house with a private lake to buy. I haven’t considered leasing anything and doubt I would.

I regularly search the internet for properties but there seems far more available for sale in France than in the UK and while I enjoy visiting France, I have no wish to live there. It also appears to me that the majority of lake sales in France are advertised as business opportunities, i.e. Carp fishing holiday venues, but I’m looking to retire, not start a new business venture.

If/when I find a lake I would seek professional advice to have it stocked with a good variety of indigenous species, including a few carp. Like steve2 mentioned above, I would also like to create a place like those I used to fish nearly 50 years ago…………… in those days any carp seemed and was real hard to catch, for me.

I will make my dream come true, hopefully next year, and let you all know when I’m ready to send out invites 

 

[greenie62]

.... commercials stock them imo because they can withstand poor water and oxygen levels better than other species and so with the rise of the commercial so comes the rise of the carp.

Not trying to start a 'Carp Wars' here Graham - but - the rise of the carp in fisheries has often led to the poor water quality and O2 levels whereof you speak! The amount of feed digested and excreted by them seems to have left some waters almost bereft of species other than carp!mg:

There has come about over the last few years a kind of fish snobbery where the carp is derided by anglers that don't fish for them, indeed some members on here take great delight in doing it why I have no idea unless they believe that "their species" are more difficult to catch so making them appear to be a better angler.....

The search for other species is confounded by the presence of carp - in that - just as you get the cru's or tincas feeding - the hooligans turn up and trash the place - and your tackle!mg:

Nowt to do with snobbery or self-agrandisement - just want to catch some decent roach, cru's and tincas - more and more difficult trying to find waters which haven't been stocked with 'bloated mud pigs'! :doh:

 

[peter crabtree]

If I had the money I'd rather buy a stretch of river, preferably with a house attached. Somewhere in Berkshire or Oxfordshire on the Thames would be ideal...

But if you think about it there are literally thousands of miles of deserted riverbanks across the country to fish for free innit....?

 

[sam vimes]

Are they really so pervasive?

Debatable. It sometimes seems that carp are absolutely everywhere. However, I find those moaning about carp a little difficult to take seriously, unless the water in question was not a carp water previously. Yes, it's a crying shame when that nice little estate lake full of tench and crucians gets sacrificed to the alter of carp. Same for the bream/roach pit or reservoir, or whatever else it may be. I also find it equally bizarre when big carp waters attempt to remove all traces of other species.

However, moaning about a multitude of commies stocking carp into new waters is rather pointless. If they aren't catering to what the market wants, they won't make any money. Whatever people might think, wherever their preferences lie, carp make money. No matter how many folks on here, with bad cases of Crabtree nostalgia, go on, an awful lot of people want to fish for carp. I don't particularly include myself among their number at the moment, but that may change.

I suspect that I'd quite like to see quality waters stuffed with quality tench, roach, rudd, crucians, or bream. However, the reality is that few are going to rush to do this on a commercial basis. This forum is well populated by anglers that might think along similar lines, but it doesn't make it particularly representative.

In my part of the world, I seriously doubt that there'd be more waters with carp present if you excluded the purpose built commies. The only repurposed water I can think of used to have stocked rainbows. It's now predominately a carp anglers water. However, bream, tench, roach and pike have also been stocked. I wonder if the fluff chuckers are cursing carp? There'd certainly be some irony in a rainbow trout versus carp bitchfest. Much like people that complain endlessly about carp, but have nothing much to say about zander or wels.

 

[steve2]

Wels, now that one fish that should never be stocked into any water that they can escape from or walk from. Zander are a strange fish that somehow grew legs and walked right across the country.

 

[thecrow]

! The amount of feed digested and excreted by them seems to have left some waters almost bereft of species other than carp!

There is a school of thought that believes that other species of fish feed on the undigested parts of a carps excrement.

I have also seen waters made muddy by bream that are feeding.

---------- Post added at 12:44 ---------- Previous post was at 12:35 ----------

Nowt to do with snobbery or self-agrandisement - just want to catch some decent roach, cru's and tincas - more and more difficult trying to find waters which haven't been stocked with 'bloated mud pigs'

Then perhaps what you should do is what carp anglers did many years ago and start searching OS maps for unknown blobs of blue then find out who's land they are on and finally go and get permission to visit it and if you are lucky fish it to see whats in it, believe me there are waters out there still with the kind of fish in them that you mention they just take a bit of work finding them, I know of some in my area but lack of mobility precludes me fishing them but I found them years ago while looking for waters with carp in them. It can be fun and satisfying when you find what you are looking for.

There are also commercials that have only none carp species in them that I know of but the nearest one to me is 50 miles away I have sent you details of one that may be to far to travel but it does indicate that waters are out there.

---------- Post added at 12:52 ---------- Previous post was at 12:44 ----------

Wels, now that one fish that should never be stocked into any water that they can escape from or walk from. Zander are a strange fish that somehow grew legs and walked right across the country.

How long does a species need to reside in this country before it is accepted as indigenous? Zander have been in this country for almost 140 years, long enough in my book, stockings took place in many places over long period of time.

Wells catfish have also been in this country for 130 years long enough for me.

I don't see anything from fly fishers bemoaning the introduction of rainbow trout into the country.

 

[nottskev]

Debatable. moaning ..... nice little estate lake.........moaning..... pointless....... bad cases of Crabtree nostalgia......bitchfest...... complain endlessly ...

I can't find anything in the thread to justify such an intemperate caricature of views expressed. Markets may have given us carp, but markets give us lots of things, many of them things we don't want; witness our many identical high streets etc where we can choke on the fumes etc etc.

Aside from purpose-built commercials, a lot of waters which held traditional stocks have have had carp added with results that have later been regretted by the controlling clubs and their members as the outcome is exactly as greenie62 describes above. Anglers who were keen to "put some carp in" might now be realising that getting ever-growing carp out of featureless open water in commies is a different matter to getting them out of the natural lakes and ponds, with all their lillies, weedbeds, trees etc, into which they have been rashly introduced. And also regretting how the carp tail is wagging the tackle dog, with the need to scale gear up etc. A further issue, again separate from the commercials, is the way club energies and resources can be skewed to creating elite "premium ticket" bivvy-friendly lakes to the neglect and decline of their own "mixed" lakes. Selling dearer tickets to fewer anglers on a narrow fishing base may be a temporary triumph for the market, but a doubtful long-term strategy.

And so on. There's clearly a debate to be had about the place of carp in different types of fishery, and there's also a strong chance that anglers' tastes will change, in terms of what they want to fish for and how. I don't agree that voicing a view that we have too many carp in too many kinds of water is "moaning nostagia". On the contrary, recognising "peak carp" might well be a good step towards better-balanced mixed fisheries. There are a lot of questions out there, and nobody knows all the answers.

 

[john step]

The tench stocking at my club lake about 3 years ago was very expensive. I doubt it would be cost effective for a commercial enterprise as carp are so much cheaper.
If memory serves we paid £18 per pound of fish +delivery+ VAT. equating to about £60 per fish average.

With the general lack of tench for me lately I have been enjoying catching very modest carp from a deep clear reservoir.They fight like billyo and take a bit of catching.

I am probably like a lot of other anglers in that I take advantage of what is currently available.

 

[sam vimes]

I can't find anything in the thread to justify such an intemperate caricature of views expressed. Markets may have given us carp, but markets give us lots of things, many of them things we don't want; witness our many identical high streets etc where we can choke on the fumes etc etc.

Aside from purpose-built commercials, a lot of waters which held traditional stocks have have had carp added with results that have later been regretted by the controlling clubs and their members as the outcome is exactly as greenie62 describes above. Anglers who were keen to "put some carp in" might now be realising that getting ever-growing carp out of featureless open water in commies is a different matter to getting them out of the natural lakes and ponds, with all their lillies, weedbeds, trees etc, into which they have been rashly introduced. And also regretting how the carp tail is wagging the tackle dog, with the need to scale gear up etc. A further issue, again separate from the commercials, is the way club energies and resources can be skewed to creating elite "premium ticket" bivvy-friendly lakes to the neglect and decline of their own "mixed" lakes. Selling dearer tickets to fewer anglers on a narrow fishing base may be a temporary triumph for the market, but a doubtful long-term strategy.

And so on. There's clearly a debate to be had about the place of carp in different types of fishery, and there's also a strong chance that anglers' tastes will change, in terms of what they want to fish for and how. I don't agree that voicing a view that we have too many carp in too many kinds of water is "moaning nostagia". On the contrary, recognising "peak carp" might well be a good step towards better-balanced mixed fisheries. There are a lot of questions out there, and nobody knows all the answers.

Sorry Kev,
but highlighting a few select words, totally out of context, is grossly unfair. You've totally ignored the fact that I stated that a carp moan is quite valid when pre-existing water is consumed by carping. However, I'm afraid that you are totally ignoring the fact that a high proportion of extra carp waters are not pre-existing waters.

As for my words being intemperate, perhaps they are. I do get rather irritated by the same tired old moans about carp and carpers. This forum is well represented by anglers of the slightly older persuasion with Crabtree ideals. It's getting towards being a traditional anglers forum, but without the cane obsession. Nothing wrong with that, but it doesn't make it representative of angling as a whole. A small minority moaning about carp is fine, but it's fantasy to suggest that there are hordes of anglers queuing up to fish for average tench, bream, roach, rudd etc in the same way that they will for decidedly average carp.

 

[peter crabtree]

. This forum is well represented by anglers of the slightly older persuasion with Crabtree ideals.

 

[sam vimes]

I suspect you know it, but nothing I've posted was trying to suggest that Crabtree wouldn't sometimes include carp in his quarry.

 

[Alan Tyler]

Even if one prefers to fish for non-carp, there's often a big difference between "some carp" and "too many carp".
I'm particularly thinking of small, shallow waters that effectively shut down with the first frosts - gin-clear water and rapidly fluctuating temperatures don't seem to be the angler's friends - unless they contain "some" carp. Enough to keep matchman carpers feeding them, enough to cloud the water, enough to barge every other fish around till they simply have to eat, and are happy to do it in daylight. Just not so many and so big that you need tope gear to be in with an even chance of landing the next fish.

Looks simple, but difficult to attain, and dam' near impossible to maintain, given carps' habits of growing and sometimes breeding.

Thank heavens for rivers, but they're no help if you can't reach them.

 

[nottskev]

Sorry Kev,
but highlighting a few select words, totally out of context, is grossly unfair. You've totally ignored the fact that I stated that a carp moan is quite valid when pre-existing water is consumed by carping. However, I'm afraid that you are totally ignoring the fact that a high proportion of extra carp waters are not pre-existing waters.

.

Fair enough. My highlighting was to draw attention to the tone of the post as well as the content, which seemed needlessly rude to anyone who has a different view on the place of carp in mixed fisheries. I appreciate you said several things, which included "allowing" moans about carp - but only when you think them legitimate.

Did I really ignore the new carp waters which were not pre-existing fisheries?
Hard to see how. I began by saying "Commercials aside" and restricted my comments to occasions from my personal experience when local clubs have mismanaged fisheries by opting to "improve" the fishing by introducing a consignment of carp, not reckoning the effect further down the line, and instead succeeded in messing it up in several ways.

Shades of grey and careful distinctions, which seem to get lost when everything is "totally" this or that.

 

[steve2]

Just how did we go from owning your own fishery to an anti carp post?

Although I dislike carp now I spent many years fishing for them. Strangest thing I have caught bigger ones now when not fishing for them than when I did. Due down to stocking policies.

 

[fishing4luckies]

To go back to the original question of owning or leasing a lake for oneself - yes I would. In fact I'm currently looking into the purchase of 50 acres with a small (22 acre) gravel pit on it, some woodland and a double bank stretch of the Medway, complete with the obligatory rickety footbridge.

As for stocking, I'd be happy to have pretty much anything and everything in the pit. I've never caught a catfish and have no desire to target them but as someone pointed out they've been here for a fair old while now so it would seem churlish to continue to single them out as 'non-native.'

Whilst I have a great love of fishing the more natural venues (there's no such thing as truly natural in this country IMO) and spending a full day with only a few sub 1lb Perch and if I'm lucky a Roach or three that need netting to show for it, I'm grateful that there are a wide variety of alternative venues that I can easily access where I can pretty much guarantee a double figure fish.

These venues vary from the purpose dug ponds festooned in easy to access platform swims to the ancient hammer and furnace ponds that have been sensitively adapted to suit the needs of anglers (albeit not the less mobile ones).

I've also just renewed my membership to a couple of syndicates - one on a large reservoir holding Carp to the mid 40's, the other a 14 acre estate lake holding fish to a similar size. Both of these venues require a fairly high degree of watercraft, thoughtful planning and strategy if you're going to see one of these fish in your net - 10 spods of boilies or particles and a Ronnie Rig plonked on top will rarely get you a bite.

It's become increasingly more apparent to me that Carp fishing, like anything else has many facets.

The syndicates I've mentioned are lovely places to fish - the fish are hard fighting and probably only get caught once or twice a year, if that.

The archetypal carp stuffed club lake seems to be stocked with fish up to the early twenties, with a fair proportion of them suffering from ragged mouths and other evidence of poor fish care.

Then there are the commies which seem to go for masses of high single/low double fish in the majority of their pools, maybe a carp free puddle that resembles 'skimmer soup' and is known as the 'silvers lake' and then their pride and joy - the Speci Lake - home to the three or four 20lb + fish that all have daft names and some ridiculously large Catfish.

They all serve a purpose I guess. As I said my own pit, if I manage to to acquire it on terms that I can afford/live with will have a bit of everything in it (except Barbel and Chub.) I'd love to put some 40lb+ Carp in there if I could afford it. And I'd keep it totally private and just fish it with a few like minded friends.

 

[sam vimes]

Fair enough. My highlighting was to draw attention to the tone of the post as well as the content, which seemed needlessly rude to anyone who has a different view on the place of carp in mixed fisheries. I appreciate you said several things, which included "allowing" moans about carp - but only when you think them legitimate.

Did I really ignore the new carp waters which were not pre-existing fisheries?
Hard to see how. I began by saying "Commercials aside" and restricted my comments to occasions from my personal experience when local clubs have mismanaged fisheries by opting to "improve" the fishing by introducing a consignment of carp, not reckoning the effect further down the line, and instead succeeded in messing it up in several ways.

Shades of grey and careful distinctions, which seem to get lost when everything is "totally" this or that.

I've no problem with people not wanting to catch carp. I'm not of dissimilar mind. I've no problem with people having a different opinion, provided it's rational and justified. Unfortunately, there are more than the odd poster that just like to moan about carp and carpers. It's been that way for quite some time on here and plenty of their complaints are anything but well reasoned and rational.

If carpers moan about bream, tench, or any other "nuisance" fish, they are generally pilloried by the more allround angler, that tend to make up the bulk of the regular posters on here, and rightly so. However, you can't have it all ends up. It's a little hypocritical to complain about the carpers with bad attitudes towards other fish when demonstrating similar disdain towards a species which you don't happen to like, or want to catch. Yes, a carp crashing the party when you are fishing for smaller species can be frustrating, but no more so than a barbel when you are trotting for roach on light gear, a dirty great trout when you are trotting for grayling, or a pike turning up when you are bit bashing. All are just par for the course and part and parcel of angling.

I'm not suggesting that you ignored anything other than the part of my original badly misquoted post in which I stated that I fully accept that an anti-carp moan is quite justified when a water was previously a bream, tench, crucian, roach etc water that's had its character significantly altered by the introduction of carp. It's a crying shame when that happens. The only saving grace is that an awful lot of carp waters weren't pre-existing waters. They are gravel pits or purpose built waters that have had carp from the very beginning of their existence.

Sadly, the introduction of carp seems to be the way of things in many cases. A club that wishes to sell tickets, or a commercial that wants to make money seems to have to have them. I know of quite a few non-carp club and day ticket waters that are all but devoid of anglers. I fish a small club pond fairly regularly that has no carp, just tench, crucians, roach and bream. I've yet to see any sign of anyone else fishing there, let alone actually meeting someone fishing. Locally, at least, there as many non-carp day ticket or club waters that have been lost to angling completely than have been lost to carp.

It's a similar situation to rivers. Those with a veritable horde of barbel are likely to be comparatively busy. Those without are barely fished.
It's a modern reality that many people want to catch carp (and barbel on the rivers), hence the proliferation of waters that hold them. Railing against it is no more logical than complaining that there's a Burger King opening in town because you don't like burgers.