Whip or pole? New thought on old question...

[fishplate42]

There has been much talk over the past few weeks about whips and poles. It raises the question again; what's the difference between a small pole and an elasticated whip?


It occurred to me that it may not be so much about the tackle, but more about how it is rigged that defines what it is. This is how I see it. I may be wrong but it seems logical to me...



For whip fishing, the rig is almost as long as the whip and fish are swung to hand. A small pole is rigged with a shorter rig and the pole is shipped/collapsed to enable the catch to be swung or netted, just as it would be if using a full-size pole. The latter is also capable of landing larger fish.


What do you think?


Ralph.

 

[peter crabtree]

I think you answered your own question perfectly in your last sentence...

 

[103841]

I have a pole and a whip of the same length but they are two very different beasts. The whip is much lighter and of much smaller diameter, designed to have a degree of flex allowing a nice action when swinging to hand and also casting,which if space permits can be done overhead. This isn't practical with the characteristics of a regular pole.

The primary use of a whip is to catch small fish, the action is such that you are less likely to bump off a fish than you might with a pole, and of course being able to swing to hand in one movement you're able to fish at greater speed.

The popularity in these older whips such as those from Daiwa is the fact they were made in the UK using quality materials and engineered to a superior degree than many of the current counterparts often coming out of the Far East,

 

[Keith M]

There has been much talk over the past few weeks about whips and poles. It raises the question again; what's the difference between a small pole and an elasticated whip?

It occurred to me that it may not be so much about the tackle, but more about how it is rigged that defines what it is. This is how I see it. I may be wrong but it seems logical to me...

For whip fishing, the rig is almost as long as the whip and fish are swung to hand. A small pole is rigged with a shorter rig and the pole is shipped/collapsed to enable the catch to be swung or netted, just as it would be if using a full-size pole. The latter is also capable of landing larger fish.

What do you think?

Ralph.

Ralph, An elasticated whip in my view is just a short pole; and is not really a whip.

A true traditional whip (not one of these modern 'so called' whips which has elastic threaded through it or one of the cheapie hollow tipped £10 jobbies) will have a fine flexible tip and semi flexible blank with which you can strike play and control the fight if a larger fish is hooked rather than just stretch out a bit of elastic; a true whip will be strong enough and light enough to be able to be continually cast overhand, underarm or sideways, and be able to be fished at a greater distance from the tip than a similar length pole.
Yes swinging in a fish can be done with a similarly rigged pole but for playing and landing a fish when speed fishing, plus the ability to continually cast, a pole just doesn't cut the mustard when your trying to use it as a whip.

s63 is totally right in my view.

Keith

 

[rayner]

Poles are not built for overhand casting, even though a flick tip can be added the action of overhand casting puts the sections at risk. At risk because the weight of the pole puts too much stress on sections.
I know this because I've tried it and suffered the consequence.

Elastic can be added to a whip, the need for elastic is surely to handle bigger fish. bigger fish would put the whip at risk.
Of course cheaper glass whips can be stronger than carbon, the offset is a poor action with a thick tip that can bump off smaller fishes.
In truth you can use either how you like, you bought the product and it's your choice.

There's no rule to stop anyone using any tackle how they like, common sense would tell me to look after my whips and to do that I use them for smaller fish generally 2oz to 4oz with .08 to .10 hook lengths, lighter lines I believe get me more bites and to a degree security for my whip. Even if I snag up I can pull for a brake safely.

 

[mikench]

I think you answered your own question perfectly in your last sentence...

Penultimate sentence!

 

[fishplate42]

I think I may have not explained what I was talking about. At one end of the spectrum there are whips and at the other end there are poles. There is no doubt of their intended use.

What I am talking about are the cheap pole/whips, usually telescopic. The same item can be found described as a whip or a pole. I am suggesting that how it is rigged determines what it is rather what it is sold as.

Take a £10.00, 5m telescopic pole/whip. Fit elastic through the top two sections and use a rig that is maybe only a foot longer than the fishing depth and it is fished as a 'pole'

Leave it without elastic an attach a line almost the length of the pole directly to the tip and it is fished as a whip.

See what I mean?

Ralph.

 

[peter crabtree]

Penultimate paragraph if you're getting picky...,

 

[sam vimes]

As far as I'm concerned, a true whip will have a flick tip and be fished to hand. It is also likely to have a much smaller diameter than a pole of similar length. It would normally be fished to hand. A whip is less than ideal for fish much bigger than a pound or so, but that doesn't necessarily stop bigger being landed on them. There's nothing to stop a whip being elasticated, but doing so doesn't turn it into a pole. Doing so should allow a slightly better stamp of fish to be targeted, but you till wouldn't want to risk it on an average commercial.

Lines have been blurred over the years by the way tackle has developed. My earliest memories of whips and "roach" poles are that no one would have any problem telling them apart. I remember buying a halfway house "power whip" in the early 90s. It was essentially a slim, light 9m pole which took elastics up to 14, though that was seriously pushing it. It had no flick tip and made no attempt to be a proper whip. The format, or name, didn't take off at all. I've never seen a similar product from any manufacturer. Shame really as I may just replace what is a rather well used, and tired, tackle anomaly. The closest I've seen since are some of the slim poles that Shimano and Daiwa have occasionally released or the new Acolyte whip (which can be elasticated). I'm rather tempted by the latter, though the price is probably a little too much for me. I wouldn't buy an out and out whip as I'd not get enough use out of a pure flick tip whip.

We are now in the situation where we have things that might be called slim poles, carp/power/margin poles, silverfish poles (closest to the original roach poles) and whips. The distinctions between them can be blurry at times. If you don't have a longer term familiarity with them, those vague distinctions can seem rather bizarre. After all, they are all essentially just a tapered tube of varying length. As much as anything, it comes down to what application that they were intended (and really suited) for. The bottom line is that elasticating a whip doesn't make it a pole. Fitting a flick tip to a pole doesn't make it a whip. However, there nothing to stop people doing either.

 

[Richox12]

Action

Whip = flexible (deliberately so)

Pole = stiff (again, deliberately so)

Different uses.

 

[rayner]

The trouble with cheap glass whips is that they are to my mind unfishable as a whip. the hollow tip with either a piece of braid or a wire loop is too stiff to fish for small fish.
Richox has it bang on the tip needs to be flexible.
It's strictly not a question of how it's rigged, it all depends on the action.

 

[fishplate42]

Double post - sorry!

 

[fishplate42]

The trouble with cheap glass whips is that they are to my mind unfishable as a whip. the hollow tip with either a piece of braid or a wire loop is too stiff to fish for small fish.
Richox has it bang on the tip needs to be flexible.
It's strictly not a question of how it's rigged, it all depends on the action.

I agree when we are referring to real whips, but I am talking about the mass of so-called whips sold as whips and tele-poles depending on where you buy them. Just search 5 or 6m whip, and you will see what I mean.

These things can be rigged as a whip, but in my opinion, they are next to useless for that purpose. However rigged with a short pole rig (elasticated or not) they are good fun to use and can be very productive. An excellent tool to show a youngster how to fish.

What I meant was the seller would define it as a whip or a pole, it is the same piece of kit, and it depends on how you use it (how it is rigged) that defines its descriptive name.

It's just another case of confusing names. It happens in lots of hobbies now we are a global community. It is not so bad in angling as the hobby tends to be different from one continent to an other anyway. Here in the UK, it seems to be manufacturers and retailers using the wrong terminology or just spelling thing differently. It can be very confusing for the novice...

Ralph.

 

[sam vimes]

There are loads of misnomers, slight inaccuracies and developments that take things away from their original concept or meaning.

Take the humble centrepin. Here are three links to reels that most of us would happily describe as centrepins.
JW Young Atom
JW Young BJ
Kingpin Zeppelin

To a pedant/aficionado, two of the reels are centrepins, only one is a "true" centrepin, the third is something else entirely. However, they all fulfil the same function.

 

[103841]

I would so like a Zeppelin, I could ramble on all day.

 

[mikench]

The Zeppelin looks stunning but would be wasted on me! If it isn't a pin what is it?

 

[sam vimes]

The Zeppelin looks stunning but would be wasted on me! If it isn't a pin what is it?

Technically, it's a Nottingham (winch) reel. Anything where the spool is secured by a nut or screw (Okumas, most of the Kingpins, Adcock Stantons, etc) is more properly named such. The reality is that most, including the manufacturers, don't care these days. They are all centrepins to the vast majority. The truth is that only reels that "float" on a central spindle (ball bearings or not) really are centrepins.
As far as the actual operation of the things is concerned, it matters very little.

 

[thecrow]

A really interesting read, thank you.

 

[rayner]

I agree when we are referring to real whips, but I am talking about the mass of so-called whips sold as whips and tele-poles depending on where you buy them. Just search 5 or 6m whip, and you will see what I mean.

These things can be rigged as a whip, but in my opinion, they are next to useless for that purpose. However rigged with a short pole rig (elasticated or not) they are good fun to use and can be very productive. An excellent tool to show a youngster how to fish.

What I meant was the seller would define it as a whip or a pole, it is the same piece of kit, and it depends on how you use it (how it is rigged) that defines its descriptive name.

It's just another case of confusing names. It happens in lots of hobbies now we are a global community. It is not so bad in angling as the hobby tends to be different from one continent to an other anyway. Here in the UK, it seems to be manufacturers and retailers using the wrong terminology or just spelling thing differently. It can be very confusing for the novice...

Ralph.

Cheap whips such as the one pictured (strictly this is a pole) would I believe fish better with elastic, turning it to a light pole.
For the sake of a few quid I would buy a flick tip, it would then make a usable whip.
Just as a by the way, my whips do not go any longer than 4mtrs.

 

[Zalastar]

I've just bought a Matt Hayes Adventure 4M Tele Pole, but it has what I believe to be a flick tip (small wire loop at the end of the tip), in which case it's a whip... Or is it? Inquiring minds wish to know

And my excuse for such a purchase is that it's for The Boy (7 year old with a short attention span and never ending stream of questions).. It's nothing whatsoever to do with a bored at work impulse purchase.. honest !