Bronze Maggots

[peterjg]

Is chrysodine dye still used for colouring maggots? Are bronze maggots now safe?

 

[markcw]

bronze Maggots are safe to use,a different dye/colouring is on them,Chrysodine is carciogenic and was stopped being used some years ago, the tackle shop I use will do bronze magggots if you ask in advance, I have not used them for some time, If using white maggots I will coat them in turmeric a couple of days prior to use,

 

[sam vimes]

Chrysoidine was supposed to have been banned in the eighties. However, I suspect that the angling press talked about a ban being imposed when the reality was somewhat different. Chrysoidine dyes are still in use for some applications. I've come across a few folks that insist that it is sometimes still used to dye maggots. Methic (Methyl?) Orange is supposed to be the modern equivalent. I suspect that if chrysoidine is being used, it'll be by individual tackle shops colouring their own maggots. As far as I'm aware, none of my locals are colouring their own.

 

[nottskev]

I remember the vogue for Chrysoidine maggots, now discontinued. Banned? It proved hard to find anything definitive online.

A British Medical Journal in 1984 reviewed the issue. It cites a West Yorkshire study that found no link to cancer, but notes its limitations. It says that its connection to cancer is argued to be circumstantial, but that any evidence should be reported. One case is cited in some detail. Two brothers, both heavy smokers and car-industry workers, fished together regularly for 24 years, both favouring Chrysoidine maggots, hands often stained for days. Both developed bladder cancers, one fatally. The interaction between smoking and dye-use is judged more significant than exposure to the dye alone, and it notes that these anglers were more directly exposed to it, and for longer, than workers in industries where it features.

I don't know any tackle shops where it is used now. One thing I did notice - but when I backtracked, I didn't find it again -was an article saying that Chrysoidine is one of two dyes that go to colour "disco" pinkies. l hadn't given it any thought, as I probably get through 10 of these little maggots in a year, and then only if I can't catch a small tench in a local pond,or get a bite on some deadly canal outing.

 

[mikench]

What about red maggots? Is that a different dye? Are bronze maggots favoured by fish because of the colour or the extra flavour from the colouring process?

 

[binka]

One thing I did notice - but when I backtracked, I didn't find it again -was an article saying that Chrysoidine is one of two dyes that go to colour "disco" pinkies.

Could this be the article Kev, towards the end of the second paragraph...

Maggots – Total Fishing

 

[laguna]

I wouldn't take the risk tbh.
If bronze is what you think/believe fish prefer, then I would suggest wriggling your maggots in a spoonful of powdered krill for a couple of hours.

I couldn't honestly say if its the colour they like more than say red or white maggots, but its well known fish love 'Krilled maggots' which turns them a lovely bronzy colour :thumbs:

Here's a pic of some 'Krilled' dead ones I did earlier

 

[jasonbean1]

Chris...is that pure krill meal you've used on maggots to colour them?

and is that riddling or wriggling?

 

[David Rogers 3]

What about red maggots? Is that a different dye? Are bronze maggots favoured by fish because of the colour or the extra flavour from the colouring process?

I think the red maggots absorb the dye with whatever they're fed on, whereas the bronzes used to have the dye applied externally. I think there's been some debate about whether it's safe for your local friendly robins to be eating your red maggots (which they do, given half a chance), but again, it's hard to prove anything definitively.

 

[greenie62]

What about red maggots? Is that a different dye? Are bronze maggots favoured by fish because of the colour or the extra flavour from the colouring process?

I reckon it's the 'whiteness' of natural undyed maggots that puts fish off - it seems to 'spook' them on occassions. On a small river I found a small shoal trout and hand fed them with some 'mixed' maggots and watched the shoal's reaction.
Red and orange maggots were their favourites then yellow, green ones were totally ignored, but white ones initially spooked them as they descended the water column - when they hit the bottom the fish's interest would return and they'd move over them to investigate but keep their eyes open to readily intercept any more attractive descending coloured samples.

When there was a 'carpet' of whites in the gravel, the trout would move over them to 'graze' - using the waft of their fins to lift them off their resting places - before spinning back and snatching them as they started to re-descend.

This aversion to taking stationary baits off the bottom and trying to make them float-up might explain why I used to catch so many parr foul-hooked in the pectoral and caudal fins!

I've repeated this experiment on finding shoals of chublets - same results and behaviour but observations usually terminated by the moving-in of a larger specimen scattering the shoal!

Since then, if I'm planning on a trotting session, I'll usually take bronzies if I can get them, or a half and half mix of reds and plain, which turn off-white by dye transfer in the bait-tub.

 

[tigger]

My local tackle shop still use chrysoidine to colour their maggots a bronze colour. The lad serving me one day actually got out the tin and put it on some maggots to show me how they coloured them.
The dye looked a bit like metal filings and the shop assistant said it wasn't banned at all. Unknown to me there where some bronze maggots mixed in my white and reds one time and it dyed my hands, rod cork and white reel yelow! As you can imagine I wasn't pleased about it. I've never found using br
onze colored maggots caught any more fish and therefore I never use them any longer anyhow. For as long as I can remember i've just used white and red maggots.
If you think about it...if the dye is transferring onto your hands then it must have been put onto the maggots rather than being fed to them as it the case with reds. I only ever get a little bit of red of reds when they burst as I hook them and their juices go on my hand but it qashes off easy.

 

[laguna]

Chris...is that pure krill meal you've used on maggots to colour them?

and is that riddling or wriggling?

Wriggling Jason, live maggots just sprinkled with a spoonful of pure Krill (KPH) powder to 1 pint. It absorbs into their skin and they also eat it.
The ones shown in that picture are drained left-overs from previous sessions which were given the VIP treatment for storing. A dose of either SAC juice (long term storage) or L-amino REACT (up to about 3 months storage).

*I don't like frozen maggots

 

[laguna]

I reckon it's the 'whiteness' of natural undyed maggots that puts fish off - it seems to 'spook' them on occassions.

You could be right about that. Perhaps any dye substance absorbed in their skin reduces their ability to secrete ammonia?
I once read some things about colour preferences and seem to recall that titanium white, added as a fine powder, made them light up like a Christmas tree at depths over 30ft. Closer to the surface in shallow water, titanium white coated bait they were taken equally to any other coloured maggot even reds.
I think titanium white is the stuff they use for line markings on football pitches and the like, so shouldn't be too hard to get hold of... but of course said experimental maggots should be bought maize/sawdust free to begin with...!

 

[sam vimes]

I've always got the distinct impression that anything resembling a preference for certain maggot colours is very heavily venue dependent.
I've always preferred bronze maggots on my local river. Due to the staining, and any lingering concerns about the possible use of Chrysoidine, I've deliberately avoided using bronze maggots for a large chunk of this year. However, I gave them a bash recently and caught that bit better than on either the reds or whites I have been using. Naturally, it's nigh on impossible to prove these things, but I definitely prefer to use bronze maggots on the local river. If I bother going further afield, I'm be just as happy using reds or whites.

 

[nottskev]

I reckon it's the 'whiteness' of natural undyed maggots that puts fish off - it seems to 'spook' them on occassions. On a small river I found a small shoal trout and hand fed them with some 'mixed' maggots and watched the shoal's reaction.
Red and orange maggots were their favourites then yellow, green ones were totally ignored, but white ones initially spooked them as they descended the water column - when they hit the bottom the fish's interest would return and they'd move over them to investigate but keep their eyes open to readily intercept any more attractive descending coloured samples.

When there was a 'carpet' of whites in the gravel, the trout would move over them to 'graze' - using the waft of their fins to lift them off their resting places - before spinning back and snatching them as they started to re-descend.

This aversion to taking stationary baits off the bottom and trying to make them float-up might explain why I used to catch so many parr foul-hooked in the pectoral and caudal fins!

I've repeated this experiment on finding shoals of chublets - same results and behaviour but observations usually terminated by the moving-in of a larger specimen scattering the shoal!

Since then, if I'm planning on a trotting session, I'll usually take bronzies if I can get them, or a half and half mix of reds and plain, which turn off-white by dye transfer in the bait-tub.

Ignored the yellows? The best maggots in the local shop were yellows, when I fished the Shroppie at the end of the road as a teenager, and I felt badly-equipped without some. The colour went out of fashion; no idea why.

Years later, I liked to flavour, colour and degrease maggots with turmeric (I believe it eased any inflammation they were suffering with, too). But sometimes I couldn't wash it off my fingers. I worried people would notice it at work on a Monday. I didn't think it would help to say "Don't worry - it's only off the maggots".

 

[cassey]

If Chrysodine is carcinogenic, makes you wonder what effect it had on fish, or anything else that ingested them through the 60's to 80's.

 

[tigger]

If Chrysodine is carcinogenic, makes you wonder what effect it had on fish, or anything else that ingested them through the 60's to 80's.

I always think the same thing Cassey, even with a lot of the bait people use today!


That's the reason why I never feed any but white maggots to the birds that hang round for them.

 

[greenie62]

Ignored the yellows? .....

No Kev - they were next on the preference list, then comma, greens were ignored. It's a problem with commas being mixed as punctuation marks and also list separators!

On a local pond t'other year, I found that a red maggie would guarantee tiny perch, a yellow maggie - rudd, and a white maggie - skimmers, time and time again - all in the same spot under the rod-tip.
All tiny 2-3" fish - so I swapped to worm and caught 6-8" Crucians!
If only it was so easy every time! mg:

 

[sam vimes]

If Chrysodine is carcinogenic

I don't believe that there's any doubt that Chrysoidine is carcinogenic. The doubt comes in as to whether it's actually being used as a colouring for all bronze maggots.

 

[tigger]

I don't believe that there's any doubt that Chrysoidine is carcinogenic. The doubt comes in as to whether it's actually being used as a colouring for all bronze maggots.

When I said they do use it in my local shop I didn't mean everyone else uses it...I really have no idea how many shops still use it.
As I said earler though, if the yellow is coming off the maggots onto your fingers i'd be very supicious as it can't have been injested by the maggots.

This link may be of interest to some people...

Maggots – Total Fishing