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  1. #11

    Default Re: When does an invasive species become an accepted part of the Eco system?

    Maybe some bow fishermen have been targetting bream?.......

  2. #12
    O.C.F.Disorder Guest

    Default Re: When does an invasive species become an accepted part of the Eco system?

    Tried to edit and it deleted a crucial sentence and now wont work haha!

    Im not sure why you think the sun shines out of a carps bottom? They are invasive omnivores and will happily east small fish and fish eggs.. Hence how people are able to catch them on lures

  3. #13
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    Default Re: When does an invasive species become an accepted part of the Eco system?

    I presume this thread is not solely about creatures that inhabit our waters? The same principals must apply though, whether UK or worldwide.

    Much depends on the impact the invasive species has on native species, they may fit into a niche, they may be in direct conflict or they may result in an indigenous species becoming extinct. And do we have the means and will to eradicate the invader, reverse the wrongs of the past? This is happening all over the world, in many cases the result of our colonialism, introducing British species to other countries and bringing their species back to UK - in hindsight we know better.

    I'm involved with 2 invasive species, I do a lot of work with our mid wales red squirrel conservation, we hope to eradicate the grey squirrel to save our native reds, we can have one or the other but not both. Grey squirrels were also introduced into Italy, so ultimately the whole of Europe faces the same problem - in the very long term if no solution is found.

    Secondly Himalayan Balsam, we are attempting to eradicate it from our village, it is a hell of a pest in fields and gardens taking acres of land and ultimately the whole Towy river system (we are at the top end, so our seeds effect everything downstream), with help from a fisheries association and NRW (the Welsh EA).

    These are just 2 completely different local examples to me. Or should we turn our back on them all, should New Zealand lose much of their incredible native wildlife to introduced predators, or should they try to reverse the wrongs of the past?
    So many examples around the world, but personally I think if a native species is endangered by an alien species, then we should do our best to fight back.

  4. #14
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    Default Re: When does an invasive species become an accepted part of the Eco system?

    Quote Originally Posted by O.C.F.Disorder View Post
    However if you just want to insult my posts and spread negativity, please clear off.
    Ha Ha you will wait a bloody long time for that to happen pal, your post wasn't at all upsetting for me its just more of the general drivel about Carp that crops up on here from time to time but as you haven't been here long you wouldn't have known that would you?

    Oh and your proof that Zander kill for fun is a few puncture marks on some bream made by ????? where is the proof that the punctures were fatal? they could just have been stab marks from Herons, you have no proof, your comparison of the Znder and the Orca is laughable considering the Orca isn't a fish, maybe the fox is the same as a Zander?

    I have seen the quality of silver fish fishing improve on more than one water that contains them, the fish that do drop in numbers are other predators as they are competing for the same niche in the waters they live in.

    I had no idea that the USA was "most countries" I have no doubt that they would like to be most countries but thankfully they are not, strange though that some British tackle companies have been selling carp gear over there for quiet a few years. I think you might find that its the Asian carp that is despised over there.

    Carp have always been indigenous to the Uk ever since the UK was joined to Europe before the last retreat of the ice age circa 10/12000 BC that seems like a very long time to me, because they may have died out after the split doesn't negate the fact that they were once indigenous as was the Woolly Mammoth that is now extinct and is reported to have been extinct 10,000 years ago, rather than ask the question about when something none indigenous becomes accepted you might like to ask yourself how long an animal that was indigenous has to be extinct in the UK before it is viewed as never being indigenous?


    "Please clear off" hilarious.

    I don't know what the blanks on your post are because I cant what they are.
    Last edited by thecrow; 07-07-2018 at 18:52.
    •The crow may be caged, but its thoughts are in the cornfield

  5. #15
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    Default Re: When does an invasive species become an accepted part of the Eco system?

    Quote Originally Posted by stillwater blue View Post
    No, only the East flowing rivers as they where the ones that drained into the river Rhine when the UK was joined to mainland Europe.
    I think that you will find that they are also indigenous to rivers that flow in a southerly direction such as the Trent, it may flow east for the some of its course but from its source it flows all over the place, to save you looking heres a bit from Wiki as you can see it flows in a lot of directions.

    The Trent rises on the Staffordshire moorlands near the village of Biddulph Moor, from a number of sources including the Trent Head Well. It is then joined by other small streams to form the Head of Trent, which flows south, to the only reservoir along its course at Knypersley. Downstream of the reservoir it passes through Stoke-on-Trent and merges with the Lyme, Fowlea and other brooks that drain the 'six towns' of the Staffordshire Potteries to become the River Trent. On the southern fringes of Stoke, it passes through the landscaped parkland of Trentham Gardens.[11]





    Swarkestone Bridge
    The river then continues south through the market town of Stone, and after passing the village of Salt, it reaches Great Haywood, where it is spanned by the 16th-century Essex Bridge near Shugborough Hall. At this point the River Sow joins it from Stafford. The Trent now flows south-east past the town of Rugeley until it reaches Kings Bromley where it meets the Blithe. After the confluence with the Swarbourn, it passes Alrewas and reaches Wychnor, where it is crossed by the A38 dual carriageway, which follows the route of the Roman Ryknild Street. The river turns north-east where it is joined by its largest tributary, the Tame (which is at this point actually the larger, though its earlier length shorter) and immediately afterwards by the Mease, creating a larger river that now flows through a broad floodplain.
    •The crow may be caged, but its thoughts are in the cornfield

  6. Default Re: When does an invasive species become an accepted part of the Eco system?

    Thanks Crow, here was I thinking rivers flowed straight like an arrow in just one compass direction

  7. #17
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    Default Re: When does an invasive species become an accepted part of the Eco system?

    Quote Originally Posted by stillwater blue View Post
    Thanks Crow, here was I thinking rivers flowed straight like an arrow in just one compass direction
    That's ok always willing to help a fellow angler
    •The crow may be caged, but its thoughts are in the cornfield

  8. #18
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    Default Re: When does an invasive species become an accepted part of the Eco system?

    Quote Originally Posted by thecrow View Post
    I think that you will find that they are also indigenous to rivers that flow in a southerly direction such as the Trent, it may flow east for the some of its course but from its source it flows all over the place, to save you looking heres a bit from Wiki as you can see it flows in a lot of directions.
    Are you talking about a different river Trent? Of course it meanders, but it largely flows in a north easterly direction. If it flowed south it would have a tough time emptying into the Humber estuary as it does. Barbel are reputed to have only been present in the rivers that drained to the east of the country. Essentially, that means anything that eventually drains into the Humber, The Wash or the Thames Estuary.
    It's fairly dubious if they were present in the likes of the Severn, Ribble, and others, prior to the last century.

  9. #19

    Default Re: When does an invasive species become an accepted part of the Eco system?

    Given their hardiness and adpatability I find it nigh on impossible to accept that Roach, Perch, Pike, Dace and so on where all present in UK waters as the last Ice age retreated & are therefore considered indiginous but a Carp of some discription was not...and remember it only needs one little Carp paddling about in any puddle anywere to make it indiginous.

    Interesting to think we could be few rock hammer taps away from someone digging up a fossil Carp and putting to bed once and for all the ridiculous notion that Carp are not indiginous to the UK.

    Heck I am tempted to go down to Lyme Regis and start chipping away myself.

  10. #20
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    Default Re: When does an invasive species become an accepted part of the Eco system?

    Quote Originally Posted by Philip View Post
    Given their hardiness and adpatability I find it nigh on impossible to accept that Roach, Perch, Pike, Dace and so on where all present in UK waters as the last Ice age retreated & are therefore considered indiginous but a Carp of some discription was not...and remember it only needs one little Carp paddling about in any puddle anywere to make it indiginous.

    Interesting to think we could be few rock hammer taps away from someone digging up a fossil Carp and putting to bed once and for all the ridiculous notion that Carp are not indiginous to the UK.

    Heck I am tempted to go down to Lyme Regis and start chipping away myself.
    Think you will need to chip deep, carp lived in Asia back then.

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