barbless hooks v barb hooks

[Philip]

Joining the thread late and its probably already run its course but my tuppence worth is that there are two separate things to consider from a mouth damage point of view in a barbed v barbless debate.

The first is potential damage caused during the hooking/playing of the fish

The second is potential damage caused during the unhooking of the fish.

In my opinion allot of the mouth damage we see is caused at the point of unhooking, not at the point of playing.

Hands up who has ever caught a small Roach or Rudd without a top lip? ...fish dont lose top lips when they are being played, they loose top lips when incompentent anglers rip the hook out and take the fishes mouth with it and the simple fact is a barbless hook will come out easier than a barbed one. Thats the whole point of a barb, to stop it coming out. So from a purely unhooking point of view there is no doubt in my mind that barbless is better as there is less chance someone will struggle to get it out.

Mouth damage from a playing point of view its more tricky. I dont subscribe to the idea that barbless penetrate deeper. I think when you have an angler pulling on one end and a big fish pulling back as hard as it can on the other both will go in as far as they can and a barb will make little difference.
The other considetation when playing is the potential for more lateral movement with barbless so more chance of a slice to one side as it were. Whilst I think this is possible (probably more so with longer finer gauge wire) i would again doubt it makes a huge difference in reality.

All that said my own preference is for barbed. The reason being that at the end of the day i go fishing to catch fish and i have more confidence i will land one on a hook with a barb than one without. If you keep a tight line then a barbless should stay in just as much as a barbed but i am not confident that the line will always stay tight so i prefer the extra confidence that a barb gives.

My preffered pattern of hooks also come with a microbarb which as a few others have suggested are probably a good overall compromise

 

[thecrow]

i have more confidence i will land one on a hook with a barb than one without.

I used to feel exactly the same until I started using barbless, I haven't lost any fish apart from those that I felt on the strike before they were gone which is imo just down to a poor hook hold, I have also watched some impressive fish landed on barbless some of which were in the smaller sizes.

I did move to micro barb hooks before going completely barbless but having looked at the barb on these hooks I don't see what they do, they are not imo anywhere near big enough to do what a barb was designed to do but more a marketing tool used in these days of enhanced fish welfare to persuade anglers to buy them in preference to barbed.

 

[steve2]

No I don't like admitting fishing damages fish, I've invested much of my time towards protecting wildlife I personally believe without anglers our waterways would have less fish within them...

So you agree with me that it does damage fish.

Would it matter if there were no fish in the water?
I would say that 90% of the public don't care because fish apart from eating them fish play no part in their life.
So you could say that the only reason fish are there is so that we can catch them.

 

[tigger]

I used to feel exactly the same until I started using barbless, I haven't lost any fish apart from those that I felt on the strike before they were gone which is imo just down to a poor hook hold, I have also watched some impressive fish landed on barbless some of which were in the smaller sizes.

I did move to micro barb hooks before going completely barbless but having looked at the barb on these hooks I don't see what they do, they are not imo anywhere near big enough to do what a barb was designed to do but more a marketing tool used in these days of enhanced fish welfare to persuade anglers to buy them in preference to barbed.

The micro barb makes a huge difference Graham, not only with tha actual catching of fish but also with keeping bait on hooks.
As an example I often put 14 or more maggots on a size 14's hook, if that was a barbless hook half of them would be pushed off by the others as they wriggle.

Regarding not loosing fish when using barbless hooks....when i've used barbless hooks i've lost lots of fish, grayling, because of the way they jig back and forth they often throw a barbless hook. I remember catching rudd for baiters and as we swung them to hand they often fell off.

 

[Philip]

I used to feel exactly the same until I started using barbless, I haven't lost any fish apart from those that I felt on the strike before they were gone which is imo just down to a poor hook hold, I have also watched some impressive fish landed on barbless some of which were in the smaller sizes.

I did move to micro barb hooks before going completely barbless but having looked at the barb on these hooks I don't see what they do, they are not imo anywhere near big enough to do what a barb was designed to do but more a marketing tool used in these days of enhanced fish welfare to persuade anglers to buy them in preference to barbed.

I have used Barbless hooks in the past when rules forced me to and I wouldnt lose any sleep over it if i had to use them all the time. However i think a barb does give added security incertain situations, slack line for example. Thats not to say a barbless will fall out in those circumstances, its just to say i think a barb has more chance of staying in.

I dont know if the term "micro barb" is a marketing gimmick or not. Perhaps so. Plus its also relative, micro for one brand might not be deemed micro by another. What i do know is that on the patterns i generally use (Drennan super specialists and specimen) they are labelled as micro barb and having impaled more than a few in clothing and myself that micro barb makes all the difference when it comes to getting them back out !

 

[tigger]

I have used Barbless hooks in the past when rules forced me to and I wouldnt lose any sleep over it if i had to use them all the time. However i think a barb does give added security incertain situations, slack line for example. Thats not to say a barbless will fall out in those circumstances, its just to say i think a barb has more chance of staying in.

I dont know if the term "micro barb" is a marketing gimmick or not. Perhaps so. Plus its also relative, micro for one brand might not be deemed micro by another. What i do know is that on the patterns i generally use (Drennan super specialists and specimen) they are labelled as micro barb and having impaled more than a few in clothing and myself that micro barb makes all the difference when it comes to getting them back out !

The reason they don't come out of clothing very easily is because clothes are made of fibres. If you hook yourself you just press the hook down against the flesh which opens a passage way which allows the barb to come out without it catching on anything.
Failing that just rip it out as fast as possible lol.

 

[Philip]

Failing that just rip it out as fast as possible lol.

Thats usually what I end up doing ! :jumpy:...although I remember the skipper of a little english channel charter boat that we used to go out on who insisted the best way was to snip off the eye and push the hook right through and pull it out the other side !!!

 

[tigger]

Thats usually what I end up doing ! :jumpy:...although I remember the skipper of a little english channel charter boat that we used to go out on who insisted the best way was to snip off the eye and push the hook right through and pull it out the other side !!!

That would work but you be advised to make sure there are no bits of metal etc left on the end thats been cut off so as not to leave them in your flesh!

 

[Keith M]

One reason given by some for not liking barbless hooks is because they are more likely to come out when a fish snags itself in weed and root ridden swims and you often need to give a little slack. So you might lose the odd fish (is this really a bad thing?).

If a fish gets truly snagged I would much prefer it to be able to slip free of a Barbless hook when this happens than let it tether itself in snags on a barbed hook; and be left to either have the hook ripped from its mouth as it struggles over time or be permanently be tethered.

I have seen far more damage done to fishes mouths by incompetent anglers trying to drag in a fish because they didn’t have a large enough landing net or trying to unhook barbed hooks, often without using a proper disgorger, and often leaving ripped lips and disfigured mouths.

I’ve also caught quite a few fish over the years that have had older barbed hooks lining their mouths or caught far down in their throats; often with their lines still trailing.

if a barbless hook does very occasionally leave hidden damage below the surface of the lips (caused by a turning hook point as a fish turns about during the fight), or leaves deepish scratches on the surface of the lips by temporarily coming free and then getting re-hooked during the fight, then yes I could see a vague argument for using barbed hooks in more expert hands; but I myself haven’t noticed this happening, nor have most (if not all) of my fishing friends as far as I’m aware.

Plus I believe that a fishes mouth has evolved to be able to cope with picking up and eating all kinds of sharp things like, broken snail shells (crushed in pharyngeal teeth), carapaces and different spines from water insects and plants lying on the bottom; most of which don’t have barbs and do not result in missing lips or gaping holes in the fishes mouths (like barbed hooks often do in inexperienced hands).

So unless you can be absolutely sure that no inexperienced or incompetent anglers are going to be unhooking your fish then using barbless hooks looks quite a sensible decision to me; and a lot more kinder to the fish.

On the other hand if you can be sure that all the anglers that fish a water are going to be very competent and experienced in removing hooks (I fish only one or two waters that are like this) then using semi-barbed hooks does not seem quite so bad.

Keith

 

[tigger]

Keith, i've caught lots of fish trailing mono and braid that's been attatched to a barbless hook. I posted a picture on here some time ago of a barbel that had a barbless hook stuck in it's mouth which had disfigured the fish. The hook would never of come out as it had gone head over heels so to speak...the fishes face would have rotted off as it became more and more infected.
I would re post the picture but I haven't been able to post any pic's for some time now.

 

[Philip]

I have seen what you mention Ian...where a barbless hook sort of turns over on itself and almost sort of stiches up the flesh but I think to be fair thats a exception and for the most part Barbless will come out easier than a barbed.

However as I mentioned earlier I would still opt for Barb.

 

[tigger]

.

However as I mentioned earlier I would still opt for Barb.

Surely that tells you something .

 

[thecrow]

Why is it that none of the Tench I have caught this season on barbless hooks had any mouth damage?

 

[tigger]

Why is it that none of the Tench I have caught this season on barbless hooks had any mouth damage?

Graham......you'll have to ask them bud .

 

[barbelboi]

Why is it that none of the Tench I have caught this season on barbless hooks had any mouth damage?

Probably because they're more difficult to catch Graham.....................

 

[mikench]

Having caught a hook today in my shorts, my crocs, the chair, my thumb and finally a fish, I will stick to barbless!