barbless hooks v barb hooks

[O.C.F.Disorder]

Lets face it guys, if you put a load of fish in a big pond and catch them over and over and over again then their lips will obviously get damaged regardless of the hook you use. I have never seen major (if any) lip damage on a fish from a river or canal. IMO the thing is.. why should we care? its not like they are important to an eco system.. Lets face it, the carp in commercials dont even need lips to eat/survive. Im not saying we shouldnt try to lesser the damage done but what is the point of worrying about it?

 

[tigger]

At one time I would never have used a barbless hook, now having seen some good fish landed on them and the fact that my club water stipulates barbless only I have changed my mind.

I have had a fair few Tench this season and in 12/13ft of water they pull back, I can say hand on heart that I haven't seen any difference in the hook hold mark on the fish and I have used from a 12s down to an 8s. Any hook will damage mouths if the only thing the angler cares about is getting it in and casting back out as quickly as possible and its most evident on match ( not all) fished waters and waters that are heavily weeded, Sywell being an example.

Anglers do have to accept though that what we do does damage a fishes mouth, its about keeping that damage to a minimum.

You won't see the damage Graham, it' the hole the barbless hook makes below the surface as the point diggs around from side to side.

 

[john step]

I am willing to be convinced either way. I have thought about this before when it has appeared before on this forum. I do feel though that perhaps more relevant is as already stated.... frequency of capture and thickness of hook wire which coincides with larger hooks coupled with competency of angler skill perhaps.

 

[thecrow]

why should we care? its not like they are important to an eco system.. Lets face it, the carp in commercials dont even need lips to eat/survive. Im not saying we shouldnt try to lesser the damage done but what is the point of worrying about it?

I don't know if that is a deliberately provocative statement but imo its just wrong.

We owe it to all fish to treat them in as humane way as possible when catching them even if despatching them to eat or to be used as bait.

 

[thecrow]

You won't see the damage Graham, it' the hole the barbless hook makes below the surface as the point diggs around from side to side.

If the hook is under tension I don't see how it can move about.

I used to have the same thoughts but since using barbless my opinion has changed, as a fish twists and turns changing the angle of the line to the hook during the fight there is imo the same chance of any type of hook to also twist while in the fish.

I shall remain convinced that as far as damage goes either will do the same amount of damage, as has been said its bad angling that is responsible for the majority of damage imo.

 

[O.C.F.Disorder]

Maybe a lil' bit Im just tired of people moaning about the lips of fish in commercials.. What does one expect?

 

[S-Kippy]

Maybe a lil' bit Im just tired of people moaning about the lips of fish in commercials.. What does one expect?

That doesn't make it right or acceptable. Personally I think its being caught time and time again allied to poor handling/unhooking that are the biggest causes of mouth damage...not whether the hooks are barbed or barbless.

 

[thecrow]

Maybe a lil' bit Im just tired of people moaning about the lips of fish in commercials.. What does one expect?

As an angler I would expect all fish to be treated with respect no matter what water they live in.

 

[fishcatcher60]

Which way do you want it "commies are just holes in the ground and massively overstocked" or "it's the same few fish that are being caught again and again".
Surely it cannot be both and where are these pictures of anglers in the press with loads of fish with damaged mouths.
I for one have also seen on canals fish with damaged mouths and also natural waters.
As for it being down to "bad angling" possibly but none of us started as competent anglers we all stated as "numpties".
As i said before the barbed hook by design is harder to remove.

 

[tigger]

As an angler I would expect all fish to be treated with respect no matter what water they live in.

A lot of commercials have regular matches and being realistic, many match anglers don't treat the fish with any respect. They treat the fiah rough as fook, stickin em in nets and them dropping them into weigh crates with the fish all flopping about on top of one another and squashing one another, knocking scales of etc etc.
Before anyone gets "offended", it's true!

 

[sam vimes]

none of us started as competent anglers we all stated as "numpties".

Quite true. I've no problem with beginners occasionally being numpties, as long as they learn from their mistakes. When using the word I really didn't have beginners in mind at all, we all have to start somewhere. It's supposedly experienced anglers being numpties that are a problem. Sadly, some anglers just don't care and they aren't really bothered how badly they treat the fish they catch.

 

[Keith M]

You won't see the damage Graham, it' the hole the barbless hook makes below the surface as the point diggs around from side to side.

Right or wrong; the way I see it; these modern microbarbs are often as sharp as the main hook point, and the microbarbs are usually cut away from the hook wire so often have sharpish edges anyway, so it isn’t very hard for a tiny microbarb to twist around during play (considering the weight and strength of the average sized Carp).

Tales of Carp with multiple insertion wounds where a barbless hook has come out very occasionally and reinserted its point again while it’s being played probably have a little more truth to them than the age old stories of the hidden damage caused by barbless hooks; but even these multiple insertions are quite rare.

I suspect that a lot of these stories are exaggerated and put around by those that like using barbs and are probably afraid that they might lose a few fish if they were forced to use barbless hooks.

As I said, I am unconvinced so far, and in certain situations I will still use a hook with a micro-barb, but if I am proved wrong after many years of catching decent sized fish without using a barbed hook then I’ll eat my ̷H̷a̷t̷ chips

Keith

 

[O.C.F.Disorder]

As an angler I would expect all fish to be treated with respect no matter what water they live in.

I think we have different ideas of what respect is then crow.. Putting hooks into something and yanking it out of its habitat is about as far from being respectful as one can possibly be.

 

[thecrow]

I think we have different ideas of what respect is then crow.. Putting hooks into something and yanking it out of its habitat is about as far from being respectful as one can possibly be.

Having respect for ones quarry doesn't mean not fishing for them or not going shooting, the argument you put forward is a very old and tired one that holds no water, yes very different idea's of respect.

I will not answer any more posts on this made by you as its quite clear you are looking for an argument and I just cannot be bothered, if you think what anglers do is wrong and that we shouldn't show our quarry respect maybe you are in the wrong pass time?

 

[O.C.F.Disorder]

I never said anything of the sort crow.. All im saying is I dont see why people moan about lip damage when it is obviously something that will happen to fish in commercials. Even sam vimes (whom I know cares greatly about the fish in the estate lake he fishes) has posted pictures of fish with beat up lips, it is an inevitability. You are the one who started ranting about respect, respect has nothing to do with this discussion. As for arguing, I stated my opinion, you argued it.. I have no problem with you not agreeing with me, arguing your point or not replying but dont sit there and tell me you wont respond to my posts! IDC if you dont want to respond, just dont respond and leave it at that. No need to be disrespectful. :croc:

 

[tigger]

It's a well known fact that barbless hooks penetrate way deeper than a barbed hook. There are a number of fisheries that now ban barbless hooks because they want to preserve their fish stocks!
A well known angler, fishery owner and specimen perch angler Steve Burk has baned barbless hooks on his waters. He says barbless hooks should never be used for perch fishing becase they penetrate so deeply and with perch often being hooked in their throat (which is where their heart is) and chances are the deeper penetrating barbless hook will puncture their hearts.
I once posted a picture of a barbel that i'd caught and it was carrying a barbless hook that had worked it's way completely round in the fishes mouth. The eye of the hook prevented the hook from coming out and the fishes face was swollen up and and was a raw open sore. I hoped with the hook removed the fish would survive but it would always have a nasty deformaty.

 

[sam vimes]

Even sam vimes (whom I know cares greatly about the fish in the estate lake he fishes) has posted pictures of fish with beat up lips

I think you have me confused with someone else. For a start, I don't fish an estate lake. I also wouldn't knowingly post pictures of fish with damage attributable to anglers.

 

[103841]

I don’t know the answer to this debate but what I do know is a very sharp hook is way better than a dulled point which has to better for the welfare of a fish.

 

[Keith M]

It's a well known fact that barbless hooks penetrate way deeper than a barbed hook. There are a number of fisheries that now ban barbless hooks because they want to preserve their fish stocks!

There are also many more fisheries who ban barbed hooks altogether to preserve their fish stocks, and many fisheries who only ban barbed hooks for their smaller fish stock and allow them on their larger fish, so it’s hard to tell who is right or wrong, especially when you regularly see fish without lips on a lot of waters, all with different rules on hooks.

A well known angler, fishery owner and specimen perch angler Steve Burk has baned barbless hooks on his waters. He says barbless hooks should never be used for perch fishing becase they penetrate so deeply and with perch often being hooked in their throat (which is where their heart is) and chances are the deeper penetrating barbless hook will puncture their hearts.

I respect Steve Burke as an angler extraordinaire and if he says that “barbless hooks should never be used for perch fishing because they penetrate so deeply and with perch often being hooked in their throat (which is where their heart is) and chances are the deeper penetrating barbless hook will puncture their hearts.” then I believe him; and in future I’ll always use semi barbed hooks when I am after Perch. Thanks for this info.

But I must ask; what about all the perch that I’ve seen over the years with barbed hooks stuck through their gullets down deep in their throats, which could probably have been easier to remove if they had not been barbed?

I once posted a picture of a barbel that i'd caught and it was carrying a barbless hook that had worked it's way completely round in the fishes mouth. The eye of the hook prevented the hook from coming out and the fishes face was swollen up and and was a raw open sore. I hoped with the hook removed the fish would survive but it would always have a nasty deformaty.

Im sorry to hear about that barbel which hopefully was a one off, but we have no choice but to use barbless hooks on any of our clubs waters (one of my clubs anyway), including its many barbel stretches; (apart from one Barbel that had external eye damage that looked like it might have been caused by a hook); and since this ‘barbless hooks only’ rule came in we no longer get Barbel with older barbed hooks strung out in their mouths or smaller fish which are tethered to a snag because they can’t eject their hook, and our barbel are as healthy as they ever where before, if not healthier.

So I’m still not convinced that a total ban on barbless hooks is a good thing except in certain situations.

Keith

 

[103841]

I’ve started using circle hooks for perch fishing (pike too) which I’ve read are safer than conventionally shaped hooks.