Guru Aventus rods

[tigger]

Regarding the quality and price of rods, it's quite obvious that rods for some angling methods rods need to be of a better stamp than rods used for other methods and because of that you can expect to pay more for those rods.
I mean I could happily feeder fish with a cheapo rod, same goes for casting dead baits etc.
On the other hand a rod used for serious trotting needs to be more refined if it's going to work well and be comfortable to use. It needs to be as light as possible for holding over long periods, it needs to have a suitable action and tip to enable line pick up for the constant mending of line and it needs to be as slim as possible to cut through the air so as to aid in a fast strike. It also needs quality stand off guides to keep the line from sticking to the blank in wet conditions and to allow free running line. Those things come at extra cost and for someone who does a lot of that method of fishing paying the extra price is worth it.
Obviously there are some really well made rods for all other methods of angling, rods that cost as much and way beyond that of a quality float rod. The differences between the lower end of the price range and higher price range of say Pike rod are without doubt there, but to your average joe angler those differences are much harder to notice than with something like a floatd rod or a fly casting rod.
It's much more pleasureable to pike fish with a cheapo rod than it is to trott with a cheapo rod.....if you gets me meaning :w.

 

[thecrow]

I am struggling to see what justifys the addiitonal £275 quid I would pay over another rod that did exactly the same thing.

Might be because they are made in the UK and not the far East?

People buy things that are expensive but never really get to use them to their full potential, fast cars, motorcycles, fishing rods are imo no different in that most anglers wont use them to their full potential or even be able to tell the difference between a £375 rod and a £50 rod when actually using it.

 

[steve2]

It's much more pleasureable to pike fish with a cheapo rod than it is to trott with a cheapo rod.....if you gets me meaning .

I can well understand that, It's the same with any rod that spends most of its time sitting on a rod rest waiting for a bite.
I would if I did a lot of trotting want a light weight rod and light weight would normally mean more expensive.

 

[flightliner]

Strangely enough I had to call in for some feeders this morning and there was a new display of the guru aventus rods.
They look nice and have the same little Union Jack logo on them the same as Daiwa.
I mentioned it to the dealer who said that guru had spent time at the Daiwa factory, told them their requirements and left them to get on with making them.

 

[steve2]

So are Guru rods are rebadged Daiwas?

 

[tigger]

So are Guru rods are rebadged Daiwas?

Sounds like it!
Maybe the guru ones have something a little different in some way.

Regarding daiwa rods, again jmo but having got one of the daiwa Dave Harrell rods from them my verdict of the rod (which is about 450 notes rrp) it isn't in any way as good as the drennan acolyte rods! Don't get me wrong it is a nice rod but the acolyte has so many plus points over it...the acolyte is much lighter and slimmer, it has a faster action, it gives me more confidence when playing larger barbel, it feels much nicer in my hand etc, oh, and it's less than half the price of the daiwa.
That sounds like i'm having a go at daiwa but i'm not, i'm just saying I think there are better rods out there for the float fisherman at a much lesser price.
Something I didn't mention about the daiwa rod was that I sent three back before getting one I was "sort of happy with"!
They may be built of high quality components etc but whoever put the guides on those rods I received needs to go to speck savers lol. Not only that but one rod must have had the middle section spigot put in slightly out of line as the top section kicked out to one side when attatched....not good when I paid a fair old chunck of coin for it. Gott'a give the seller their due though they sent a courier to take the rods back and replaced the rods asap, pity the rods weren't as good as the seller!

 

[108831]

I had a hand made Harrison torrix made up at Fosters for a lot less than than that and in eight years time I'll still be able to buy a section,will you with the guru,I doubt it very much...

 

[Philip]

Philip, I'll bet that there's something that you buy and value highly that would leave me as perplexed as you are by expensive fishing rods, it's just the way of the world. The one thing that does confuse me somewhat is why you aren't using £30-50 budget carbon. If there can't be any difference between your chosen (hypothetical?) £100 rod and a £375 rod, why is there any difference between a £50 rod and a £100 one? A carbon blank, some rod rings, whippings and a handle....so just like any other rod.

Indeed. we all have our little eccentricities.

Your question is basically if I think there is little difference between a £100 and £375 rod then why am I not using & thinking the same for say a £20 rod ? The reason is because in my opinion the higher end you go the smaller the “improvements” & appreciable difference becomes. Therefore there is going to be a price point when for the majority of people the noticeable difference will be very small if at all.

In my opinion for a rod like that if someone spends @£100 they can probably pick up a very very good rod that in many peoples hands they would be hard pressed to notice an appreciable difference. Obviously its not an exact science and not having handled a Guru call it an (informed?) guess.

Now I am interested in what someone like yourself who is far more interested and informed on rods than me would guess. Would you say the guru is probably overpriced at £375 ?

 

[mikench]

Start saving your pocket money Philip and you too could own a rod like this!

 

[sam vimes]

Indeed. we all have our little eccentricities.

Your question is basically if I think there is little difference between a £100 and £375 rod then why am I not using & thinking the same for say a £20 rod ? The reason is because in my opinion the higher end you go the smaller the “improvements” & appreciable difference becomes. Therefore there is going to be a price point when for the majority of people the noticeable difference will be very small if at all.

I would never dispute that the rules of diminishing returns applies in spades. It's simply the way that retail works. However, what you are saying here is markedly different to what you said before.

Spending more does not necessarily get you a significantly better rod. The only absolute guarantee is that it gets you a more expensive rod. Where I differ from you is that I'm quite convinced that the very best £100ish rod will not be better than a well chosen £200+ rod. That's an awful long way from suggesting that every expensive rod is better than every mid range rod. I know full well that is not the case.
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In my opinion for a rod like that if someone spends @£100 they can probably pick up a very very good rod that in many peoples hands they would be hard pressed to notice an appreciable difference. Obviously its not an exact science and not having handled a Guru call it an (informed?) guess.

I would never disagree that mid range rods can be very good, but that's different from saying that you can't get better by spending more. Whether an individual needs, wants or appreciates those differences is another matter entirely.

Mid range rods might be perfectly acceptable for many anglers and it's undoubtedly the area where the best value for money to performance coincides. The same applies to pretty much any consumer item you might care to mention.​

Now I am interested in what someone like yourself who is far more interested and informed on rods than me would guess. Would you say the guru is probably overpriced at £375 ?

I've absolutely no idea. Guru have made a small collection of rods for types of fishing (commie float and feeder rods) that I have absolutely no interest in. I doubt I'll ever get to see them unless I make a special trip to one of the bigger tackle shops to look at something that does pique my interest. The only thing I can reasonably say is that I've not been impressed enough by similarly priced Diawa rods (that do cater to my requirements) to part with any money.

 

[Philip]

I would never dispute that the rules of diminishing returns applies in spades. It's simply the way that retail works. However, what you are saying here is markedly different to what you said before.

Spending more does not necessarily get you a significantly better rod. The only absolute guarantee is that it gets you a more expensive rod. Where I differ from you is that I'm quite convinced that the very best £100ish rod will not be better than a well chosen £200+ rod. That's an awful long way from suggesting that every expensive rod is better than every mid range rod. I know full well that is not the case.
​

I would never disagree that mid range rods can be very good, but that's different from saying that you can't get better by spending more. Whether an individual needs, wants or appreciates those differences is another matter entirely.

Mid range rods might be perfectly acceptable for many anglers and it's undoubtedly the area where the best value for money to performance coincides. The same applies to pretty much any consumer item you might care to mention.
​

I've absolutely no idea. Guru have made a small collection of rods for types of fishing (commie float and feeder rods) that I have absolutely no interest in. I doubt I'll ever get to see them unless I make a special trip to one of the bigger tackle shops to look at something that does pique my interest. The only thing I can reasonably say is that I've not been impressed enough by similarly priced Diawa rods (that do cater to my requirements) to part with any money.

I pretty much agree with most of what you say.

Perhaps you need to consider you are most certainly NOT what I would consider an average rod user. I think you have a point of view that many wont.

In my opinion not many anglers will appreciate the difference between a very good mid range rod or a top end one. Only a minoroty of anglers will be able to and even less be able to take advantage of that in their angling.

Your probably one of those people & the extra outlay of money for the creme de la creme should you wish tp spend it might well be justified.

I dont think it will be for allot of other people, myself included.

 

[sam vimes]

I pretty much agree with most of what you say.

Perhaps you need to consider you are most certainly NOT what I would consider an average rod user. I think you have a point of view that many wont.

In my opinion not many anglers will appreciate the difference between a very good mid range rod or a top end one. Only a minoroty of anglers will be able to and even less be able to take advantage of that in their angling.

Your probably one of those people & the extra outlay of money for the creme de la creme should you wish tp spend it might well be justified.

I dont think it will be for allot of other people, myself included.

That's fair enough, but it's still an awful long way from the blanket generalisation that there is no difference between a £100 rod and a £375 one. I fully accept that many would have no wish to pay the extra, some won't even notice (though if they used them in anger, I suspect they would) and many just wouldn't care.

I feel exactly that way about leger rods. I know full well that there are better than I own to be had, at a price. However, as it's a method I rarely employ, I'm not going to waste my money on them. I don't actually recall the last time I took a leger rod with me when I've gone fishing. When you consider that I'll have fished somewhere north of 75 times this year, it demonstrates amply how little legering I do.

 

[Philip]

but it's still an awful long way from the blanket generalisation that there is no difference between a £100 rod and a £375 one

As I suspect that is your underlying bug bear here I just want to point out that I never actually said that.

I actually said what justifies the additional £275 quid I would pay over another rod that did exactly the same thing. The point being that -to me- it would be doing exactly the same thing for all the reasons already mentioned above.

 

[sam vimes]

As I suspect that is your underlying bug bear here I just want to point out that I never actually said that.

I actually said what justifies the additional £275 quid I would pay over another rod that did exactly the same thing. The point being that -to me- it would be doing exactly the same thing for all the reasons already mentioned above.

My interpretation of this

The Video told me all I needed to know. A carbon blank, some rod rings, whippings, and a handle....so just like any other rod.

I am struggling to see what justifys the addiitonal £275 quid I would pay over another rod that did exactly the same thing.

...Perhaps the price tag they hang on it is solid gold ?

is obviously quite different to what you really meant.

However, you consistently make these kind of statements to provoke discussion and you've got exactly what you wanted. The fact that you've amplified significantly, and perfectly reasonably, on what you said originally (regardless of how harshly it's interpreted) is quite enough to demonstrate to me that even you don't really believe what you said initially. It is the initial sweeping statements that irritate, because the inference I take from them is that you think anyone spending more than mid range prices are fools being parted from their cash for nothing.
​

 

[Philip]

However, you consistently make these kind of statements to provoke discussion

Indeed. & I am glad you noticed. it would be a rather boring world & forum without that from time to time dont you think ?

It is the initial sweeping statements that irritate, because the inference I take from them is that you think anyone spending more than mid range prices are fools being parted from their cash for nothing.

Have you considered that some of your statements could be taken equally as wrongly & that anyone suggesting that a mid range or cheaper rod could be better than a more expensive one is an idiot who knows far less than you and therefore must be wrong ? You can see it & spin it however you want to.

I asked your opinion on whether you thought the rod was over priced earlier - just a guess based on your knowledge and experience but you side stepped it.

In my opinion there is nothing on the Guru rod that appears to stand out as unique, innovative or significantly different selling point. Its not as if its made from a new material like Graphene or has some sort of new rings or fittings or anything that makes it stand out from the crowd other than perhaps the location of manufacture. Therefore you basically hoping that they have somehow hit the sweet spot with all the usual materials and components to somehow come up with a perfect combination that fully justifies £375

My guess is they haven’t and the rod is probably being over priced to see how many people they can fleece at the start before they drop the price somewhere along the line.

 

[sam vimes]

Indeed. & I am glad you noticed. it would be a rather boring world & forum without that from time to time dont you think ?

Possibly, but there's always the danger of coming across as a wind up merchant.

​

Have you considered that some of your statements could be taken equally as wrongly & that anyone suggesting that a mid range or cheaper rod could be better than a more expensive one is an idiot who knows far less than you and therefore must be wrong ? You can see it & spin it however you want to.

Quite possibly, but I don't dispute that a really well chosen budget to mid-range rod can actually be better than some rods in price categories above. I also don't believe that anyone is an idiot for buying whatever rod they fancy, be it £10 or a £1000. Ultimately, I don't really care how others choose to spend their money. People can make what I think are poor choices in whichever price band they are buying, but it still doesn't make them idiots. As long as they are happy with their purchase, it's all good.

​

I asked your opinion on whether you thought the rod was over priced earlier - just a guess based on your knowledge and experience but you side stepped it.

I can't sensibly answer a question about rods I've never even laid eyes on. They may be the best thing since sliced bread, they might not be. They may justify every last penny, they might not. All I can sensibly say is that they are made by Daiwa and I've not been tempted by similarly expensive Daiwa rods in categories I might actually be interested in. That's not a sidestep, that's being honest without making unfounded judgment. I can't say whether they are overpriced or not. As I won't ever try them, I'll never be able to give a truly informed opinion. It's just the same when people ask about poles or tip/feeder rods. I'm not informed enough to give even mediocre advice on stuff I barely use or have never used.

My guess is they haven’t and the rod is probably being over priced to see how many people they can fleece at the start before they drop the price somewhere along the line.

​

You might be quite correct about the price of them dropping sooner or later. Exactly that tends to happen with gear from most of the mainstream brands.

 

[Philip]

Possibly, but there's always the danger of coming across as a wind up merchant.

Its a fine line and you wont always get it right.

Quite possibly, but I don't dispute that a really well chosen budget to mid-range rod can actually be better than some rods in price categories above. I also don't believe that anyone is an idiot for buying whatever rod they fancy, be it £10 or a £1000. Ultimately, I don't really care how others choose to spend their money. People can make what I think are poor choices in whichever price band they are buying, but it still doesn't make them idiots. As long as they are happy with their purchase, it's all good.

Agree with that

I can't sensibly answer a question about rods I've never even laid eyes on. They may be the best thing since sliced bread, they might not be. They may justify every last penny, they might not. All I can sensibly say is that they are made by Daiwa and I've not been tempted by similarly expensive Daiwa rods in categories I might actually be interested in. That's not a sidestep, that's being honest without making unfounded judgment. I can't say whether they are overpriced or not. As I won't ever try them, I'll never be able to give a truly informed opinion. It's just the same when people ask about poles or tip/feeder rods. I'm not informed enough to give even mediocre advice on stuff I barely use or have never used.

I appreciate that but you probably more than most are in a position to make an informed guess. If you dont want to then thats perfectly fine.

You might be quite correct about the price of them dropping sooner or later. Exactly that tends to happen with gear from most of the mainstream brands.

It will be interesting to see early 2019 what they are selling at.

 

[mikench]

Gawd help us Philip when you reach adulthood!

You put Willian Hague to shame for precociousness!!!

As the instigator of this thread I feel the rods are overpriced and unlikely to appeal to me not that I have seen them! I cannot accept that Diawa would produce a product for a competitor which was superior to their own!

 

[markcw]

When I used to go to buy a new rod be it float or feeder, I always took at least one reel with me that would be used on the rod I would be buying. Also I knew what length of rod I was going for, brand name did not come into it. I went "blind" meaning I would pick a selection of rods, fit the reel, and see how it felt, another thing I did after asking shop staff permission was thread the reel line through the rod eyes and get one of the staff to pull on the line, this gave a better feel than one of them pulling own on the tip. I have bought rods ranging from £40 to £150 using this method just because that particular rod felt better than the others I have tried regardless of price, As for the Guru rods could I buy one ? yes Would I buy one ? that would depend on if I was in the market for another rod and if it felt better than others I tried at the time.

 

[mikench]

With the passage of time I wonder if anyone has seen, held or acquired either the 11 or 12' float rod and what they think of it?

They remain pricey!