sam vimes
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Not being spade end is the issue. I don't do eyed hooks for float fishing.
QM1 hooks
- Thread starter mikench
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Not being spade end is the issue. I don't do eyed hooks for float fishing.
S-Kippy
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Ha ha ha.....you picked the other Drennan pattern that I dont like much and rarely ( if ever) use. I like these more than the SS though and I think there's a packet or two in my box somewhere.
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As you know Chris I use spades for most of my float fishing.
If I do use a eyed for one reason or another I find the palomar knot improves the presentation, how the hook hangs etc. It's a really strong knot also and I don't think i've ever had one fail on me.
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I thought you would have liked superspades. I've caught literally hundreds of barbel on them in sizes as small as 18's. They're realy strong and i've never had one open out on a fish. You can have total confidence in them!
markcw
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Sam, I went into my local tackle shop today and lo and behold they had a couple of packets in size 22, so I got them, All I have to do now is find the Drennan pole hooks, they had a nice long shank on them
sam vimes
Well-known member
They are long discontinued under the names and packaging I remember.
20 ultra fine pole hooks | eBay
DRENNAN POLEMASTER WIDE GAPE MICRO BARB POLE HOOKS SIZE 24 | eBay
DRENNAN POLEMASTER WIDE GAPE MICRO BARB POLE HOOKS SIZE 26 | eBay
Why ?
...I have heard that said quite allot by people but I have never really been convinced enough to buy into it.
What am I missing?
sam vimes
Well-known member
As Whitty suggests, it's a question of presentation. The vast bulk of my fishing is float fishing, usually with small baits such as maggots and casters. I find that with light lines, eyed hooks don't tie as well as spades and don't sit right with some of the better knots. The palomar is my preference, but I find it doesn't tie well with lighter lines and small hooks. With bigger baits, and stronger lines, I have less of a problem with eyed hooks, but that sort of fishing isn't really my game.
No of course not Whitty …the idea of me asking is basically to strike up a bit of discussion and anyone can chip in.
Yep what you (& Sam) say is basically the reason most often given ..presentation. Now I’ll admit right off the bat I am no matchman but I’d say that this is possibly because spade ends are tied with whipping type knots down the shank holding the hook at a sort of « straight » continuation of the line.
It makes me wonder whether just tying a eyed hook on with a spade end knot or just a basic knotless knot would mean the hook sits pretty much the same ? ...I agree the spade with marginally help it to lie flater than with an eye but enough to make a real difference ?
Thats interesting as the Palomar is my go to knot ..whats the issue you see with the lighter lines ...that it damages them ? I do find with a Palmar you can avoid any damages to the line and restrict any crinkle to the tag end based on the way you tighten it down....
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sam vimes
Well-known member
If you are going to use a whipped knot, you may as well use a spade and do away with a needlessly bulky eye which impacts on presentation. You've also got the prospect of a badly finished eye causing issues for a whipped knot. Does it make a real difference? That's up to the individual angler to decide.
Ultimately, it all comes down to preference. There's absolutely nothing you could do or say to convince me to use eyed hooks for lighter forms of float fishing. I'm not in the least bit bothered if you, and every man and his dog, wish to use eyed hooks.
The palomaris my go to knot when I go heavier and actually bother with eyed hooks.
I do find that there's always some crinkle imparted regardless of how it's tightened. The heavier the line, the less the issue, but I'm not generally using heavier lines, or eyed hooks.
Sadly a knotless knot sits with the hook pitched inward,perfect for hair rigging,but for presenting maggots,casters,hemp,tares and similar not good,the spade end hook sits in-line with your line,so when a bait moves it looks more natural. Eyed hooks tyed with a spade end knot is not as good because of the extra weight of said eye,you'll catch on anything mind,it's just what you feel is best.
I was writing this while Sam posted,I prefer a grimmer knot myself,it hangs ok and doesn't damage the line as long as you lubricate the knot and ease it down slowly,but everything as usual is down to personal preferences.
I was writing this while Sam posted,I prefer a grimmer knot myself,it hangs ok and doesn't damage the line as long as you lubricate the knot and ease it down slowly,but everything as usual is down to personal preferences.
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Blimey ! …how about if they did a PHD study by the leading minds in humanity that somehow proved its better to use an eyed hook ?
…I jest ...your clearly very happy with your spade end choice and at the end of the day that’s what matters.
The reason it sits an angle is because of the way your told to pass the line through the eye when your tying it. As I mentioned there is nothing to stop you using a spade end knot on an eyed hook to make it sit straight if you wanted…for example if they did not make the pattern you wanted in a spade end.
Couple of points here worth further consideration ..
Does an eye add weight ? I think that may be one of those things that have become accepted as a norm without people really considering it properly.
Look at the eye of a hook..its usually just a continuation of the shank curled round. That bit that curls round would just be flattened on a spade end, thinner but wider so in all probability using the same amount of material to create it so why would an eye weigh more ?
As for the way a spade end makes baits sit more naturally…You mention maggots, casters , help and tares.
Taking maggots as an example…how does say a maggot hang more naturally on a spade end hook ? …the loose feed is wafting and tumbling about all over the place in the current so how does a maggot look more natural on a spade end thats sitting straight on the line ?
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wetthrough
Well-known member
For a B911 16s, nearly 23% ~0.0034g
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The hook doesn't sit as straight though on the line Philip,with any deviation altering the way a bait calls through the water and with a bit of effort you would find a spade end hook strong enough for your requirements,but what rocks your boat and gives you confidence,match anglers don't use them for fun,good anglers use what they find catches them more,that's why guru have made some great gear that's innovative,but designed for match fishing,used by all,because it works.
I am quite sure there will be patterns were an eye adds weight…but is it on all models all of the time ? ...thats the point I am making …it seems to be automatically accepted to be the case regardless of the model or pattern.
There is also the question of what 0.0034g actually impacts in a real fishing situation. …I imagine if I stick on a slightly fatter maggot I have probably already negated any difference that the weight of the spade made.
Fair enough Alan, I recon the way a bait like a maggot falls through the water is so random that spade end or eyed the fish won’t notice the difference but as you say its what rocks your boat at the end of the day. :thumbs:
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sam vimes
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I don't really believe that a fraction of a gram makes an eyed hook poorer than a spade end. I can't argue that eyed hooks give inherently poorer presentation. The only thing I can think of that's anything other than subjective is that the eye on a hook will be bigger than a spade of directly comparable spade end hook.
My choice simply comes down to an eye being physically larger than a spade and me being able to tie neater spade end whipping knots with less line damage. If you find it difficult to tie a spade without line damage, or simply find them less hassle, then eyed hooks may be the way forward for some.
When it comes to bigger baits, bigger hooks, and heavier lines, then eyed hooks become my choice too. I wouldn't use a spade end hook larger than an 8 and wouldn't use an eyed hook bigger than a 12. The crossover comes down to the techniques, baits and line strengths being used. The reality is that I rarely use a spade bigger than a 14, or an eyed hook bigger than a 10. That's largely down to the types of fishing I tend to indulge in.
My choice simply comes down to an eye being physically larger than a spade and me being able to tie neater spade end whipping knots with less line damage. If you find it difficult to tie a spade without line damage, or simply find them less hassle, then eyed hooks may be the way forward for some.
When it comes to bigger baits, bigger hooks, and heavier lines, then eyed hooks become my choice too. I wouldn't use a spade end hook larger than an 8 and wouldn't use an eyed hook bigger than a 12. The crossover comes down to the techniques, baits and line strengths being used. The reality is that I rarely use a spade bigger than a 14, or an eyed hook bigger than a 10. That's largely down to the types of fishing I tend to indulge in.
mikench
Well-known member
I'm happy with QM1 hooks to nylon! Life's too short to over complicate matters. The Philistines were always given a bad press!
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It's pointless arguing that a eyed hook gives as good a presentation as a spade end hook because it doesn't, simple as that.
The only reason a eyed hook will give a better presentation is because the person advocating that can't tie a spade end.....mg:.
If you tie a uni/grinner knot then there's a large knot proudly sticking up off the top of the hook! Ok, that's not a big issue with larger hooks and baits when legering but it is when float fishing.
Philip, just learn how to tie a spade end hook, it's easy bud.
The only reason a eyed hook will give a better presentation is because the person advocating that can't tie a spade end.....
mg:.If you tie a uni/grinner knot then there's a large knot proudly sticking up off the top of the hook! Ok, that's not a big issue with larger hooks and baits when legering but it is when float fishing.
Philip, just learn how to tie a spade end hook, it's easy bud
.You do realize you can tie a eyed hook with a spade end knot dont you Ian...
I'll practice some more Ian.
In the meantime a tip to help you reduce those bulky eyed hook knots you get ...dont finish with the triple granny knot at the end mate