Bait Boats

[seth49]

Well I’ll still use mine were needed, and if you don’t like it, that’s your problem, won’t bother me in the slightest. Mine has certainly caught me carp, that I wouldn’t have been able to without it, it’s just another method at the end of the day.

 

[Keith M]

Your missing the point. Its not about competition or worrying that any advantage good casting may have given you will be negated by others using a boat. Anyone who worries that much about what others catch would quickly get themselves a boat I imagine.

Its to do with the acceptable line of what defines reasonable or sporting angling. For example I cited the bait having to be cast as one but there are lots of others. For example, I think rod and line must be used.

But Philip; a rod and line is still being used even when an angler is using a bait-boat.

A rod and line is being used for bite detection, striking, playing fish and when landing a fish.

Presenting your bait correctly and in the right place is already done using a host of different methods like swim feeders, anti-tangle rigs, rowing boats, pop-up beads, throwing sticks, catapults, floats with wind vanes for drifting your baits downwind, etc. etc. and small baiting boats are just another method that an angler has in his armoury for different situations, and it is still called Angling.

In the right place a bait boat can give an angler the ability to place their bait and their loose-feed very accurately into quite difficult to cast places (often tight up to islands with overhanging vegetation) without chance of spooking their target fish, and without having to use heavy leads, or large spods or feeders or spreading their loosefeed far and wide; and without risking snagging their lines up on overhanging vegetation or something else.

Another example, I would not consider hand lining as “angling” . Would you ?

....& if not why not ? ….there is a hook, bait & line involved …you could even stick it on a bait boat and float it out there. Would you argue that this was ok ?

No I wouldn’t Philip, I don’t class handlining as Angling at all, least of all because the word ‘Angling’ is defined as fishing with a rod & line; and not fishing with a handline; plus a handline wouldn’t be very good at striking at range or tiring and playing a fish in or even netting a fish and it wouldn’t be very good for the fishes health either.

Everyone has an acceptable line and Bait boats cross mine.

That’s fair enough Philip I’ve no problem with that at all; if you don’t like bait-boats of course that’s completely up to you, everyone’s fully entitled to draw their own acceptable lines and I fully respect your view, even if it’s not really mine.

NB: I’ve never used a bait-boat and probably never will, but I do know of one or two places where a bait-boat could be an advantage at certain times of the year as long as it didn’t interfere with other anglers on the waters.

Tight lines
Keith

 

[sam vimes]

Your missing the point.

I'll beg to differ.

Another example, I would not consider hand lining as “angling” . Would you ?

By definition, hand lining uses no rod, so is not technically angling.

....& if not why not ? ….there is a hook, bait & line involved …you could even stick it on a bait boat and float it out there. Would you argue that this was ok ?

No issue at all. It may not be ok in law or rules, but it can safely be defined as fishing. Not angling, which requires the use of rod and line. However, bait boats don't generally negate the use of rods, so safely remains within the dictionary definition of angling.

Everyone has an acceptable line and Bait boats cross mine.

Which is absolutely fine, provided you accept that you are only the final arbiter of what's right and wrong for yourself. I don't particularly want to use a bait boat myself, though I can see benefits. However, I will not denigrate anyone that chooses to use a boat, provided they use it responsibly.

 

[Hugh Bailey]

Quite an emotive topic.

I wouldn’t use a bait boat, but neither would I row my baits out in a dingy / row boat. If this was a general rule, probably none of the Queenford bream would ever have been caught, and no one would have caught anything on Cassien - maybe no bad thing.

As has been said - better a silent boat than a ton of spods, but from the other experiences, it seems the same as anything - the lowest common denominator in terms of behaviour defines it.

 

[Philip]

But Philip; a rod and line is still being used even when an angler is using a bait-boat.

A rod and line is being used for bite detection, striking, playing fish and when landing a fish.

Presenting your bait correctly and in the right place is already done using a host of different methods like swim feeders, anti-tangle rigs, rowing boats, pop-up beads, throwing sticks, catapults, floats with wind vanes for drifting your baits downwind, etc. etc. and small baiting boats are just another method that an angler has in his armoury for different situations, and it is still called Angling.

In the right place a bait boat can give an angler the ability to place their bait and their loose-feed very accurately into quite difficult to cast places (often tight up to islands with overhanging vegetation) without chance of spooking their target fish, and without having to use heavy leads, or large spods or feeders or spreading their loosefeed far and wide; and without risking snagging their lines up on overhanging vegetation or something else.



No I wouldn’t Philip, I don’t class handlining as Angling at all, least of all because the word ‘Angling’ is defined as fishing with a rod & line; and not fishing with a handline; plus a handline wouldn’t be very good at striking at range or tiring and playing a fish in or even netting a fish and it wouldn’t be very good for the fishes health either.



That’s fair enough Philip I’ve no problem with that at all; if you don’t like bait-boats of course that’s completely up to you, everyone’s fully entitled to draw their own acceptable lines and I fully respect your view, even if it’s not really mine.

NB: I’ve never used a bait-boat and probably never will, but I do know of one or two places where a bait-boat could be an advantage at certain times of the year as long as it didn’t interfere with other anglers on the waters.

Tight lines
Keith

A very reasonable reply I must say Keith.

Just to clarify a couple of points. I am not suggesting a bait boat does away with rod & line. I was suggesting use of rod and line as two more examples of things I consider as essential elements for a fish to be considered caught by fair “angling” means.

I think we agree on the rod and line point anyway as you suggest that you don’t consider hand lining as fair angling either. There you go …that’s an acceptable line for you. However others might not agree. I got chatting to one guy who on finding out I was an angler told me he was too and showed me some photos…all the fish had been harpooned while he was snorkeling.

Unless there is a definitive list as to what constitutes fair and sporting angling it will always be subjective and each person will make their own judgement on it.

The thing is I recon bait boats have crept into the “acceptable” category under the radar. My impression is that if this question had been asked 20 years ago I would not be in such a minority but as more and more people use bait boats there is a snowball effect and once someone gets one then of course to them it becomes just another a perfectly legitimate method.

I also find it interesting that people are saying that the bait boat let them catch fish they would not normally have caught, like it’s a good thing.
I see enough people moaning on FM about the merits & ethics of using bolt rigs, buzzers and multiple rods yet bizarrely using a battery operated craft to precisely place your hook bait in places you could not possible fish with a normal rod and line appears to be perfectly acceptable !

What a strange bunch we are.

By definition, hand lining uses no rod, so is not technically angling.

However, bait boats don't generally negate the use of rods, so safely remains within the dictionary definition of angling.

You appear to be arguing that because it falls under the dictionary definition of angling its therefore acceptable.
Tommy Morgan should have claimed the tree was a “rod” and then he could have still been the Pike record holder. What can I say...I am more picky about whats acceptable & sporting than you.

neither would I row my baits out in a dingy / row boat. If this was a general rule, probably none of the Queenford bream would ever have been caught, and no one would have caught anything on Cassien - maybe no bad thing.

I won’t row hookbaits out either Hugh. I don’t know about Queensford but I beg to differ for Cassien you didnt and dont need a boat to catch the fish.

 

[sam vimes]

You appear to be arguing that because it falls under the dictionary definition of angling its therefore acceptable.

I'm not arguing either way other than stating that by definition it is angling by definition.

I am more picky about whats acceptable & sporting than you.

Obviously, and you are quite entitled to apply your own personal levels of acceptance. However, it's unreasonable to expect everyone to share your view. There are plenty of things within angling that, for various reasons, aren't acceptable to me. If other folks find them acceptable, so be it.

 

[Philip]

However, it's unreasonable to expect everyone to share your view.

Where did I say I expected people to share my view ? The OP asked our opinions and I gave mine.

 

[sam vimes]

Where did I say I expected people to share my view ?

The following rather suggests you'd only be too happy to be able to impose you views/values on others.

However if I was setting the rules they would be banned.

 

[Philip]

Ah you little rascal you ....you missed this bit ...it was on the same post...accidental I am sure...

I have no problems anyone else using them if the rules allow

Oh and btw ...out of interest are you suggesting that if you had a water you would not set any rules on it ?

 

[sam vimes]

Ah you little rascal you ....you missed this bit ...it was on the same post...accidental I am sure...

I quite accept that was there too. However, it doesn't negate the fact that you said that if you made the rules, you'd ban bait boats. They don't really give me a warm glow. I still find the prospect of their use just a smidgen uncomfortable (much like using 3/4 rods even when it's allowed), though definitely not as uncomfortable as they obviously make you. The difference is that I won't even try to make out that they aren't angling, or that they are somehow cheating. Nor would I wish to prohibit their responsible use by others that have absolutely no qualms about using the things. Even if they did make me quite as uncomfortable as you, their responsible use by others still wouldn't impinge on me in any way.

My very favourite fishery has two basic rules. 1) Don't break the law. 2) Don't be a ****. Don't get me wrong, it's a syndicate, so we don't have to deal with any absolute mouth breathers, but it's an absolute delight to fish somewhere that doesn't have a list of dubious rules a mile long. Positively liberating, and all the better for it.

 

[terry m]

The notion of rowing out baits is simply preposterous.

I would always use an outboard motor.

 

[sam vimes]

Oh and btw ...out of interest are you suggesting that if you had a water you would not set any rules on it ?

As suggested before I saw your edit, just the two rules. However, I'd be unbelievable picky about who got to fish it. I could no more run a commercial day ticket water than I could walk to the moon.

 

[mikench]

I prefer to keep my hobbies separate so the combination of angling and playing with radio controlled model boats is a no no!

One of these might be fun!!!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/2736576211...0%26rvr_ts%3Dc7aa072e1680ab4c83e42a70fff6253e

 

[Peter Jacobs]

When it comes to Bait Boats my view is tht there is a line to be drawn between using the best technonlogy available and losing any of the skills that it has taken me almst 60 years to perfect.

When it comes to baiting I am pretty accurate and can usually put groundbait balls virtually down the same "hole" at catty range, with or without a marker float in the water, and then cast pretty much to the same mark as well.

Now, beyond casting and catty range then what? . . . do we simply find somewhere else to fish (and lose out on the possibility of catching) or take advantage of available technology?

Personally I have a Viper Mk 3 bait bo thar arries a decent eough load of particle feed as well as my rig and also has an integral depth finder that i sometimes rely upon, but but too often,

So, where do I personally draw the line ?

Well, the range at which I chose to fish dicates the use of the boat or not and, while I considered it, I decided against upgrading to the later model boat that has an integral GPS, I prefer to use the time-honoured system of using a far bank landmark for direction.

Without technological advances I suppose that we would all still be using fairy liquid bottle tops as bite indicators or the silver foil from a fag packet, and trying to cast to distance with a Mitchell 300 . . . . .

 

[Philip]

it doesn't negate the fact that you said that if you made the rules, you'd ban bait boats

Yes that right I would ban them.

& If the tenuous point your trying to make is that setting rules also means your being...

unreasonable to expect everyone to share your view

... then your suggesting total anarchy as no one would set any rules.


In addition you then add you would set....

two rules.

... which rather undermines your moral lecture to me about it regardless of how loose those rules might be.

Now, beyond casting and catty range then what? . . . do we simply find somewhere else to fish (and lose out on the possibility of catching) or take advantage of available technology?

There is a third option..wait for them to come into range, try to bring them into range with the use of bait or how about just accepting defeat, the fish won this time and come back another day.

 

[sam vimes]

In addition you then add you would set.... ... which rather undermines your moral lecture to me about it regardless of how loose those rules might be.

It's not a moral lecture. I just don't share your desire for setting rules against things I happen to dislike. There are umpteen things in angling I dislike, so I don't do them. I don't feel any need to inflict those likes, or dislikes, on anyone else though. My attitude is that, provided it's not against the law, knock yourself out, or not, your choice.

 

[108831]

I see nothing in a bait boat that would be in the dictionary re :- angling,if I had my own lake I certainly wouldn't allow them and I would have most likely several rules,which hopefully would allow it to be a good fishery,I don't know what they would be,but I'm sure the 'anglers' would make my rules for me by being what I would consider wrong and don't say that's selfish as I would be the owner and people don't have to fish my lake,a big tongue out emoji...

 

[103841]

This is the first time I’ve looked at this thread, still going after four pages I guessed a difference of opinion might be the reason, as often is the cast it’s the usual suspect ((suspects).

But aren’t bait boats so yesterday? I’d be delivering my bait by drone.

 

[Philip]

if I had my own lake I certainly wouldn't allow them

and don't say that's selfish as I would be the owner and people don't have to fish my lake

Which is pretty much my perspective when I said I would ban them. However apparently according to some people setting a rule automatically means your unresonably expecting everyone to share your views.

 

[Philip]

This is the first time I’ve looked at this thread, still going after four pages I guessed a difference of opinion might be the reason, as often is the cast it’s the usual suspect ((suspects).

I am sure thats intended (and its taken) as a humerous comment but I am also interested....do you consider the fact that its now run to 4 pages with some mildly heated banter going on as a bad thing ?

I ask because have you noticed how dead the forum has been over the last few months. I imagine without the usual suspect(s) it would have died in about 8 posts.