Shooting ban, could we next?

Clodhopper

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 29, 2013
Messages
94
Reaction score
77
Location
Sussex
"To give just one example: grouse moors - those profitable playgrounds of the rich – are a Bermuda Triangle where birds of prey disappear and a heather monoculture induced to feed young birds. They are owned by a tiny elite who receive public subsidy for their contribution to environmental damage."

I have no knowledge of the profitability of grouse shooting, Kev, and I am, personally, far too clumsy to ever be allowed near a shotgun. However, I do find this, from the British Trust for Ornithology, very interesting:
BTO - Breeding Birds of the Wider Countryside: Red Grouse

In particular, the view encapsulated in the final paragraph ("Hen Harriers in particular can reduce grouse shooting bags, limit grouse populations and cause economic losses to moor owners, and have been subject to much illegal persecution (Thompson et al. 2009). Finding a solution to the harrier–grouse conflict would bring considerable benefits to the management of the UK's heather moorlands and have broad implications for the conservation of predators (Redpath & Thirgood 2009"), seems enlightened. Finding a way of maintaining red grouse levels through the management of moors for the benefit of paying customers is surely better than watching the disappearance of the moors and, subsequently, the grouse and its predators?

Ultimately, I believe that it is arguments such as these that are the best defense for our own sport. Angling Club management of waterways and fish stocks for the benefit of fishermen is surely the most pragmatic approach.
 
Last edited:

benny samways

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 25, 2012
Messages
397
Reaction score
1
Location
Floating on a cloud of tities
If they banned fishing even more people would take it up.

It only takes a ‘No fishing’ sign and anglers pop out like Gizmo was dropped down the toilet (big up if you get the awesome 80s reference!).

ATB
 

Philip

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
Messages
5,762
Reaction score
3,170
I recon we should start a yellow bait apron protest.

Pick a nice sunny day for a protest march/stroll along the Thames at Henley, chuck a few packs of Lidl economy pork sauasages on a BBQ for anyone who turns up and I recon we will quadruple our numbers overnight.
Has to be a winner:)
 

silvers

Well-known member
Joined
May 19, 2012
Messages
629
Reaction score
701
the interesting point is that it seems to no longer be the licence holders judgement as to whether sufficient non-lethal means have been tried beforehand.

Surely this is both unenforceable and open to legal challenge?
 

mikench

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 1, 2015
Messages
27,457
Reaction score
17,855
Location
leafy cheshire
It's as clear as mud but better than nothing. Why should a farmer produce a field of grass for winter sillage and then let an invasive species eat it? They, Canada geese are almost inedible and thus add nothing to the local environment.

If you grew grapes, strawberries, corn or any other crop is it ok for me to come along and help myself? No it's not, it's theft! So why should Canada geese be allowed to?
 

Neil Maidment

Moderator
Joined
Oct 7, 2003
Messages
5,087
Reaction score
296
Location
Dorset
the interesting point is that it seems to no longer be the licence holders judgement as to whether sufficient non-lethal means have been tried beforehand.

Surely this is both unenforceable and open to legal challenge?

It seems, from a legal point of view, it never was the licence holders judgement/responsibility. Under existing law (EU law fully adopted into English Law) it's NE's responsibility, which they chose to ignore.


"The EU Birds Directive and the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 provide strong theoretical protection to all birds but allow in certain circumstances for people to take lethal action. This includes where the killing is intended to meet a specific purpose such as preventing the spread of disease or preserving air safety.


However, the law states that before issuing a so-called General Licence, Natural England as the competent authority must first properly satisfy itself that no alternative non-lethal means, such as scaring, could provide a satisfactory solution.

Wild Justice contended that Natural England wrongly put the onus on individual licence users to explore non-lethal methods as part of the licence conditions. In its legal claim, Wild Justice did not ask for the licences to be revoked, but sought to ensure the same legal error was not made in any further or replacement licences.

In pre-action correspondence Natural England confirmed that it agreed that the law required the statutory body itself to be satisfied that no alternative non-lethal means existed before issuing the licences but declined to say whether or not, and if so how, it had satisfied itself before issuing the 2019 General Licences. Wild Justice therefore issued legal proceedings as a last resort."
 

mikench

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 1, 2015
Messages
27,457
Reaction score
17,855
Location
leafy cheshire
It's utterly illogical to prevent humans from the " appropriation of something from another with the intention of permanently depriving that other of it" which is essentially S1 of the Theft Act 1968, without animals and birds being subject to the same rules and sanctions! Don't animals and birds have equal rights and thus responsibilities? Discuss!
 

silvers

Well-known member
Joined
May 19, 2012
Messages
629
Reaction score
701
Neil,

Indeed, the letter of the law hasn’t changed suddenly ... I wasn’t precise in wording - but it will be interesting to see whether it changes the practical policing of the licences in the future.
 

Molehill

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 26, 2017
Messages
925
Reaction score
563
Location
Mid Wales
It was all very simple when pest control was legislated under our countryside and wildlife act, and then in 1992 we had to comply with EU legislation and needed exemptions to kill certain species (the general licences). Enter lawyers and arguing- over 25 years later it is still lawyers and arguing!

No offence to legal eagles on here :)
 
Top