Carp Pollution

Molehill

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Carp have their place like all species, but not everywhere. Unfortunately that seems to be what the majority of stillwater anglers want, a chance of some carp in every lake. If nothing else is biting or the angler does not have the skill sets to catch other fish, then a few carp will save the day.

Unfortunately they ruin my day! Trying to catch smaller species on appropriate tackle can be a nightmare, regular interruptions from 8lb carp grabbing the bait and charging about the lake tries my patience.
 

no-one in particular

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I appreciated exactly what you were talking about. I was giving examples of why, despite being one of them, I don't believe that there really are enough people that want to catch good stillwater fish that aren't carp. When I start seeing non-carp (or non-river) syndicates and non-carp commies proliferating, or clubs with such waters not needing to think about stocking waters with carp just to boost incomes, I might start believing it's true. If I'd ever heard of hoards of mixed fishery stillwater syndicates it would be a start. The day I hear of a plethora of tench syndicates, I'll be sold on it. I am one of those anglers that are interested in good stillwater fish other than carp, but I've had to put my money where my mouth is to satisfy that need.

What really needs to happen is for someone to trust their views and run a tench, bream etc water, or even just a carp free mixed fishery, as a club or syndicate, and see if they can even manage to cover the rent at prices people are prepared to pay. Do a deal with a struggling club for their existing carp free water (before they fill it with the things), or simply start from scratch on a virgin water. I would hope to be wrong, but I doubt either would get enough interest to survive for long.

Unfortunately, this forum is not remotely representative of the average angler. For a start, the average age is relatively high. There are some very regular anglers that fish at least once a week, some three or four times a week. There are many regular posters that won't go near a commie, many that do little but fish rivers, and many that are, at best, indifferent to carp. None of this is anywhere near average angler territory.

It does happen occasionally, I found a lovely big farm lake last year carp free, and it was the only lake on the farm. Howver, it held stocked chub and barbel as well and nicer true crucians had been stocked. But at least I could fish it for the tench without worrying about getting smashed by carp. The owner was taking a financially risk but I guess he was doing OK but he did have all sorts of other public amenities on the farm, kids areas, camping and fruit picking. I think he might have been financially smart, filling a gap in the market and maybe more clubs/commercials could think about that if thay have enough water, why have three or more carp lakes!.
I know of two commercials that have carp free lakes, one was tench and rudd only and another tench and bream only; I bet a few on here would love that and they both had anglers on them although I only fished on weekdays but it would be true, there where more anglers on the carp lakes. However, would those anglers have fished there if it was only carp or not have joined a club if it was only carp! It's revenue they might be missing out on. I suspect there maybe more if one really looked for them and rivers and canals as Peter mentioned are always an option if you want carp free.
However, there are too many carp venues or catfish as well these days.
 
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108831

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I don't mind carp,or catfish on reasonable sized waters,is over two acres perhaps,or with depths over eight feet,any smaller and imho any shallower,or smaller it would be nice to be left to farm pond favourites tench and crucian carp,this is obviously a generalisation,but in the main it would be nice,when I go roach fishing on the slider I have to use a minimum of a 4lb hooklength,from May onwards it goes up to 5.5lb,just because I know there is a realistic chance of a carp or catfish taking my bait,now if the roach wouldn't take on that tackle I would go lighter and take the hit of losing a big bonus fish or leaving hooks in them,I have actually had a catfish angler tell me that float fishing should be banned to protect the catfish,I played devils advocate with him and said that the catfish should be removed to protect the other species from predation and the gross amounts of feed being thrown in by those fishing for them,lol,his face was a picture...
 

theartist

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Wouldn't it be nice to fish somewhere that isn't stocked with any species (aside from pollution re stocking) You may as well be fishing in the fish farm itself
 

nottskev

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Wouldn't it be nice to fish somewhere that isn't stocked with any species (aside from pollution re stocking) You may as well be fishing in the fish farm itself

You didn't say that when you were eulogising Redmire - but those carp didn't appear by magic. :)

It's not only pollution that prompts re-stocking; in this area many fisheries lost their long-established mixed stock to cormorants, and the carp-stocking solution, much as I dislike it, was seen as the way to grow things too big for avian predation. There are more factors in play than just a misguided consumerist preference for a bigger species.
 

Philip

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In answer to the OP question I am finding the opposite. People are illegally taking the Carp from the rivers I fish to put in private sill waters.

I have less Carp to fish for and my Carp fishing is on the decline.

I sympathize with people who see their mixed fisheries changing due to the introduction of Carp but they are in the minority & that’s what the demand is for.

Many excellent mixed fisheries have also been created because of Carp. There are very few truly Carp only waters out there.
 

sam vimes

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Wouldn't it be nice to fish somewhere that isn't stocked with any species (aside from pollution re stocking) You may as well be fishing in the fish farm itself

There are an awful lot of supposedly natural waters that would barely have any fish at all if they weren't stocked, at least to start with. There are multiple gravel pits within a few miles of my home. The vast bulk of them usuall do not allow fishing. However, far too many of them received only minimal stockings on reclamation. The odd one appears to full of fish, but the majority are almost devoid. The couple that allow angling, and have had some stocking (not necessarily that much), are tough waters that can be soul destroying. Fortunately, they can sometimes be pretty rewarding to those that persist. They don't come close to being well stocked, nor are they heavily stocked.
 

theartist

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You didn't say that when you were eulogising Redmire - but those carp didn't appear by magic. :)

Haha maybe I should rephrase my original quote to 'Isn't Overstocked' Redmire is a bit different to a pasty filled commercial.

I for one am glad that there aren't many Tench commies, leave that to the carp, for some to want that style of fishing with other species similarly overstocked shows which way fishing is going or indeed gone.
 

108831

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Wouldn't it be nice to fish somewhere that isn't stocked with any species (aside from pollution re stocking) You may as well be fishing in the fish farm itself

Sometimes I think I'm fishing where there are no fish at all,quite often in fact...
 

steve2

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Sam, not a syndicate but day tickets , I read that Fairbrass of all people is to open a tench only water here in true gods county soon. Granted there are to be other carp only lakes on the complex,but it will be interesting to see how the tench one fares.

As much as like fishing for tench I would not fish a tench only lake it's no different to a carp only lake.
 

Jeff Woodhouse

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People say that, but the reality is usually somewhat different.
Got to disagree with that. I believe that the first priority is to provide a safe site, safe for kids and elderly, with nice surroundings and a good healthy looking lake. Then you can stock with with good hard fighting tench, some fine rudd, and good crucians. Perhaps a few perch to keep everything in place. Then you have a good fishery.

If you have two similar fisheries then the other can be for roach, bream, and carp, but I will bet the carp dominate all the catches after the angler has baited and fished his swim for an hour or two.

One of the problems we have with the BIG carp anglers now is they believe we should all fish with the kit they use, 42inch nets, high-sided mats, and use medication - EVERY time in every hook hold. It's not necessary, carp are one of the toughest fish of all with a good immune system the fast healing skin. Only if the hook hold is very blooded or you see a wound that has been picked up on the fight in should you use any antiseptic (that came from Dave Chilton, owner of Kryston who made Klin-Ik.)

And now they want to use dip tanks as well, but I just wonder how often they're going to renew the solution. The old use of iodine solution was that on the day it worked well, the day after it was perhaps only 70-80% effective, the following day only 60%, then 50%, and 40% etc. And you don't just dip your net for 5 seconds, you leave it in for 2-3 HOURS! How about that? When do you get to fish? This is what the EA do if they have to dip their seine nets. Otherwise, a full day in bright sunshine kills all know diseases on nets, so dry them, simple as that.

It's worth bearing mind that disease is more likely spread by the transfer of fish stocks. The chance of a damp net carrying a disease is most unlikely, millions to one. (This from our local EA Fisheries Officer.)
 

sam vimes

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Got to disagree with that. I believe that the first priority is to provide a safe site, safe for kids and elderly, with nice surroundings and a good healthy looking lake. Then you can stock with with good hard fighting tench, some fine rudd, and good crucians. Perhaps a few perch to keep everything in place. Then you have a good fishery.

If you have two similar fisheries then the other can be for roach, bream, and carp, but I will bet the carp dominate all the catches after the angler has baited and fished his swim for an hour or two.

One of the problems we have with the BIG carp anglers now is they believe we should all fish with the kit they use, 42inch nets, high-sided mats, and use medication - EVERY time in every hook hold. It's not necessary, carp are one of the toughest fish of all with a good immune system the fast healing skin. Only if the hook hold is very blooded or you see a wound that has been picked up on the fight in should you use any antiseptic (that came from Dave Chilton, owner of Kryston who made Klin-Ik.)

And now they want to use dip tanks as well, but I just wonder how often they're going to renew the solution. The old use of iodine solution was that on the day it worked well, the day after it was perhaps only 70-80% effective, the following day only 60%, then 50%, and 40% etc. And you don't just dip your net for 5 seconds, you leave it in for 2-3 HOURS! How about that? When do you get to fish? This is what the EA do if they have to dip their seine nets. Otherwise, a full day in bright sunshine kills all know diseases on nets, so dry them, simple as that.

It's worth bearing mind that disease is more likely spread by the transfer of fish stocks. The chance of a damp net carrying a disease is most unlikely, millions to one. (This from our local EA Fisheries Officer.)

I think you may have got the wrong end of the stick. The vast majority of your post bears no relation whatsoever to my post, or subsequent posts. The comment was simply in response to the assertion of there being loads of folks wanting to fish for tench, nothing more.

However, it's a simple fact that supply and demand is dictating that the majority of folks want to fish commies. Many clubs are losing out on income because of this. The majority of commies are full of carp. Even the big carp world is seeing a proliferation of very commercialized waters. The fact that plenty of the regulars on here, including myself, would generally prefer to avoid both commies and carp is immaterial. We are simply not representative of angling as a whole. If we were, there'd be an awful lot more out and out carpers or match type commie anglers within our ranks. If that were the case, I'd probably not be here, and I suspect that a few others would feel the same way.

Quite a few on here seem to believe that I'm defending the proliferation of carp. I'm categorically not doing so. I'm simply trying to defend the committees of clubs that are doing their best to survive. The road to hell may be paved with good intentions, but I've no doubt that their intentions are good, even if I, and others, think them misguided. The clubs that will definitely survive, without at least some carp in their waters, are those lucky enough to have something exceptional in their portfolio of waters, be they stillwaters devoid of carp or river stretches. My own perfect stillwater fishery probably wouldn't have any carp at all. However, with my club hat on, or if it were a commercial venture, it would probably have to.

My own club is primarily centred on flowing water. We had a decent tench water (for the area), but had to give it up because the rent increased out of all proportion to the number of members actually bothering to fish it. The most telling aspect of this particular water is that it has been unfished since, despite being offered to all and sundry, sometimes for less than we paid pre-price hike. We managed to get access to another stillwater that has nothing remotely exceptional about it. It's a purpose dug fishery, not unlike the average commie, just without masses of fish. However, it does have carp. Lo and behold, club membership increased. That pains me to say, but it's the truth.

My syndicate lake has both bream and tench that are exceptional for the area. It also has a fairly low number of carp to a decent size for my part of the world. It is deliberately billed as a mixed fishery. However, without carp, and carpers, we couldn't afford to do what's been done. The number of members that deliberately target anything but carp can be counted on one hand. The number of people prepared to pay for a crack at these good tench and bream is disappointingly small.

I understand entirely why so many don't like the proliferation of carp. I'm really not that keen myself, especially when a good water is ruined by it. There are hundreds of decidely average waters that people inexplicably flock to fish. The one common factor is usually carp.
 

Another Dave

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I'm trying to plan a session in June with my old fishing mate. I'm looking for a day ticket water where we can pretty much just chill and catch a few species. My mate would love to get a decent perch, and i'd like this too but it would also be great to see a pound-plus crucian and some tench.

It's proving quite hard to find somewhere that isn't carp carp carp here in Essex. Loads of places insist you have a huge landing net and a first aid kit, 36 inch mat, etc etc which are things i don't have and don't want to buy. I've nothing against carp and wouldn't mind catching a few but i'm starting to think i'm fighting a losing battle here.
 

Philip

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One of the problems we have with the BIG carp anglers now is they believe we should all fish with the kit they use

Do they ? I have never come across a Carp angler who has insisted I fish with the same kit as them.

And pre-empting where I suspect this line of discussion will inevitably lead...if we all had to fish with kit that handled the biggest fish in any water then no one would fish with Roach tackle ever even if the were no Carp.
 

steve2

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I'm trying to plan a session in June with my old fishing mate. I'm looking for a day ticket water where we can pretty much just chill and catch a few species. My mate would love to get a decent perch, and i'd like this too but it would also be great to see a pound-plus crucian and some tench.

You will struggle to find what you want without joining a club. Most of the good waters around Chelmsford are club owned or carp fishing.
You could try Blashford Hills, Chigborough or Fennes. If you don’t mind the noise the A12 lakes.
 

john step

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You will struggle to find what you want without joining a club. Most of the good waters around Chelmsford are club owned or carp fishing.
You could try Blashford Hills, Chigborough or Fennes. If you don’t mind the noise the A12 lakes.

Whats in the Chase at Dagenham nowadays...any idea?
 

steve2

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The problem I see coming is that there are basically now two types of carp anglers. Those that fish carp ponds and want overstocked easy to catch and big weights and those that want bigger and bigger carp.

I know that there are plenty of carp anglers that won’t fish waters where carp are less than 20 or 30lbs. The question they always ask me about my clubs waters is what size do they grow to and how many over 20lbs.
So you end up with small doubles that no one wants. They are too big for most match anglers and too small for the carp angler. Where do they go but into another pond and so the cycle continues.
I did once put forward an idea at a club meeting when one of the lakes being netted to remove a large number of small carp to dig a hole and bury them. Needless to say it wasn’t agreed but they were at the time happy to remove and kill any pike.
 

john step

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This thread has got me thinking about my own attitude towards carp and fishing in general. I have a mixed reaction to carp lakes.

The trouble is I like all sorts of fishing. If I lived near a beach I would do sea fishing as well.


I actually enjoy SOMETIMES fishing a predominately smaller carp type water. I did yesterday. Its good fun getting the bend in the rod. I don't need to go to commercials because this particular club water does it for me at a cheap annual cost.
I tend to visit here after a daunting long wait for a bite type of venue.
Its also good in winter for roach and perch when the carp shut up shop.
I would not fish there all the time, obviously.

I also have recently started to "big" carp fishing with bivvy and the works. Not all the time either that would get too much.. But enjoyable when the weather warms up. About 3 or 4 of 48 hrs sessions a year is fine. I enjoy camping so this fits the bill.

I am fortunate in that I live an hour from what is often called the best barbel river in the country. I enjoy that but again couldn't do it all the time.

Then there is winter piking, good for a bend in the rod.

As with my carp fishing I am not obsessed with size. The "is it a double or over twenty" brigade. Pike is pike. Carp is carp, barbel..and so on.

I am sorry for those who cannot access the type of fishing they would like due to overstocking of carp but if they own transport a suitable venue must surely be within range with a little extra effort. When I crave small river barbeling I make the effort to travel 100 miles to the Swale for horses for courses.

There are rivers and canals all over the country. Most clubs have one on their books.

What I am saying in this Derek Gibson tribute post is that variety is the spice of life. Just search it out. Aint life grand.
 

Another Dave

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You will struggle to find what you want without joining a club. Most of the good waters around Chelmsford are club owned or carp fishing.
You could try Blashford Hills, Chigborough or Fennes. If you don’t mind the noise the A12 lakes.

I do mind the noise.

Blasford Hill has the draconian rules i mentioned Blasford Hills Main Lake - Carp over 30lb - Chelmsford day ticket fishing

I don't know what's in Chigborough or what the rules are, the website is low on details.

Fennes is where we went last year and it's all very relaxed and the rules were pretty easy going, not that anyone came round to check we were following them. The downside was that there was goose-sh1t everywhere in the bit we fished, but on the whole i think they will win our custom again.
 
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