fishing over depth

[bennygesserit]

For some reason I never do this , I think I disliked the thought of deep hooking perch.

So I normally try and fish dead depth but it occurs to me that often my bait will be floating just above the bottom.

Should I be fishing over depth as a default , is there a particular shotting pattern that improves bite indication ? ( I assume a bulk near the bottom of the rig is what is required )

Cheers

 

[rich66]

I quite often fish over depth in Stillwater and canals. About 2” if I’m on maggots with a no6 shot 2” from the hook. I move them up and down as the situation demands. If I’m targeting bigger fish Tench, Carp I’ll go right upto 2 foot over depth, with all the weight at the base of the float. Perhaps a small shot if I’ve got drift. In fact I’m more often over depth than dead depth.

Shotting pattern I use is majority of the bulk at the float. About 1/2 way down will be a couple of no6 to set the float to the indicator. That last shot on the bottom should drag the float straight down on a bite.

I’m sure it’s probably not completely right what I do but it works for me.

 

[Philip]

The majority of my float fishing on stillwaters is over depth although I am generally targeting bigger fish rather than a bag of fish so it may not be too relevant for you.

Typically I will bulk the shot say 8 inches from the hook, set the float a foot or so over depth then drag the float back till it cocks. This is a very easy way to fish. As long as you have a rough idea of depth and its fairly uniform then its perfect for stalking type situations as you dont want to be repeatedly casting ...one shot is sometimes all you get. I actually fished like this this very evening. Caught one lost one. Bites were signaled by the float lifting and keeling over then sailing away.

 

[peterjg]

Most of my stillwater fishing is done float fishing over depth (or legering) because for most of the time the better roach prefer a static bait on the bottom. I mainly use sensitive homemade antenna floats with a no. 4 shot about 3 inches from the hook on the deck to register bites.
However; especially in warm weather, later in the morning when the roach have stopped biting on the bottom, roach can be caught fishing up in the water even on big baits.
If the water is deeper than around 8ft I find it better to float leger. I then use either a bait dropper with a 7 metre whip or float leger with a very small cage or flat bed feeder to get the bait down near the hook.

 

[108831]

Forgive me,but I didn't notice if you are on the pole or float fishing on the rod,on the pole it is normal to fish dead depth,or up to three or four inches on(usually for bream,tench etc),however on the waggler,slider ect unless I'm fishing for crucians I would start over depth and by this I mean the bottom tell tale nearest the hook on the deck(I often use 15" hook links),so I'm always over depth,at times I fish with said shot three feet over,this is for control(in flow/tow),but also gives fish more confidence taking the bait,obviously when small perch are swallowing the bait,shorter hook lengths,shot close to the hook,dead depth rigs ease it,I'm afraid float fishing isn't simple enough to give a go to answer,species present,bait used,depths,colour,undertows all have a major bearing on the shottings and depths to be fished(that's on top of personal preference).

 

[rayner]

When it cools a little I will lay on, whilst it's warm up in the water is the way for me.
If I use a waggler when it's cooler I have a maximum of six inch over depth, typically with 3 no8s on the deck to prevent drift.
This is the way I've always done it, It's worked for over 50yrs. I can see no reason to change.

 

[bennygesserit]

Thank you so much for your replies
Just reading them during lunch break

No doubt later I will have more questions when I have some spare time

 

[108831]

When it cools a little I will lay on, whilst it's warm up in the water is the way for me.
If I use a waggler when it's cooler I have a maximum of six inch over depth, typically with 3 no8s on the deck to prevent drift.
This is the way I've always done it, It's worked for over 50yrs. I can see no reason to change.

The 'what I do sort of comment' is what I meant really,can't do this unless your content on certain species,I am not,I cry out for the variation,if possible,but I know the option is there,if I'm really desperate to save the blank,which most often I'm not.

 

[rayner]

Variation is good, complacency is not.
We must be ready to change, just sticking with a method that's not working is wasting time.

 

[Jim Crosskey 2]

Rayner absolutely nails it there for me... your shotting pattern whilst float fishing can be given a whole lot of variation which might make all the difference to getting a bite or not, or solving the problem of late bite detection (and those deep hooked tiny perch!)

One really good reason to fish overdepth is to counteract tow. If you set the float at dead depth and then the wind starts pushing your float (or the undertow starts pushing it) then you're no longer at dead depth, your bait is off the bottom and moving... and I find this the kiss of death. The solution will depend on the strength of tow or wind, but it might be as simple as fishing 2" over depth and moving the last tell tale shot a little bit closer to the hook.... or it might mean fishing 2 foot overdepth and putting an extra AA shot 6 inches from the hook (or all points in between). Some experimentation might be required to get the perfect presentation and even then, those fickle fish might decide they want it differently mid-session.

Same thing goes when fishing on the drop. The rate at which the bait drops through can make all the difference to getting a bite (or catching the biggest fish). So you'll probably start with a logically spread out pattern of 4 or 5 no.6 or no.4.... but you might find that you need to back nearly everything up to the float just to get a bite... or put everything right next to the hook to bomb it down. Variation is the spice of life and frequently you'll find that a seemingly minor change will suddenly produce... So keep tinkering, looking for what works best.

This whole conundrum has always been one of the most attractive aspects of float fishing for me!

 

[bracket]

Like most others, be it river or stillwater, my starting point is over depth and then take it from there. I have been for a short session this morning, fishing pole on a small club lake. The lake is around 6ft deep and full of tench and small crucians, so the approach is, dead depth for the crucians and 2 inch over for the tench. This is the rig I used:


It's a 0.6g pole float carrying 8 no 8, 3 no 10 and 1 no 11, all stotz. With this amount of lead, the tip dots down to less than one eight of an inch, so I treat the tip with vaseline and it stands prouder than that, which I can then easily see, while still retaining the sensitivity. The three no 10s are droppers and I frigg about with them constantly. The bulk is 7 no 8s, about a foot from the hook. My personal preference is to close string them, which I like to think minimizes the pendulum effect and reduces tangles, but that's most likely a load of b*ll*cks. In the photo, the rig is set over depth for tench, with a no 8 tight up to the float stem and at 2 inch over depth. The next lead down, a no 11, is set at the dead depth, the crucian mark. Even with the rig overdepth you will still take crucians, you get that gradual sinking bite, so count 3 and lift the pole. I normally feed 10 to 12 expanders, through a cupping kit, every third put in. That is meant to keep the fish on the deck. If you drip feed, using a pole pot, there is every chance the fish will start to take on the drop. In that case you can restring the bulk no 8s to allow for that. The hook is a 16 Drennan silver fish spade end hook. Pete.

 

[108831]

Variation is good, complacency is not.
We must be ready to change, just sticking with a method that's not working is wasting time.

True,but often bream fishing is not done dead depth,or up in the water,same as tench,you do get them both on the surface sometimes,or on the fall,but most times you take them on the bottom,so if you want a chance of catching them,that's where you've got to be,however I'm not interested in catching little roach to ensure the float goes under,or catching carp on a pellet waggler,done all of that and don't enjoy it,in fact I'd rather avoid both coming up in the water in my swim,so bait,feeding it and presentation is used to avoid them if possible,if that's your enjoyment,good on ya.

 

[ian g]

You mentioned the fear of deep hooking perch in the original post . Most of my float fishing is for perch on the Severn , fishing mainly deeper steadier swims. I have found big perch tend to like a still bait so I generally fish around a foot over depth laying on , if you balance your tackle right this is still a pretty sensitive way of fishing . The float either lies flat or shoots off so I haven't really had to many problems with deep hooking . It's also more sensitive than tip fishing as a rule and I just really enjoy watching a float go under

 

[108831]

Small perch are a different thing when it comes to deep hooking...

 

[peterjg]

Ian g: spot on. That's a great way of fishing which I really enjoy except I'm after roach.

 

[bennygesserit]

it occurred to me ( rather later than it should have done ) that when I fish a bomb I am doing the same ( or almost ) fishing over depth and still catching.

I have read this thread a couple of times and will deffo try this fishing the pole on the silvers lake or maybe even the loaded waggler.

This really why fishing forums and this one in particular are so good !

 

[bennygesserit]

Like most others, be it river or stillwater, my starting point is over depth and then take it from there. I have been for a short session this morning, fishing pole on a small club lake. The lake is around 6ft deep and full of tench and small crucians, so the approach is, dead depth for the crucians and 2 inch over for the tench. This is the rig I used:
View attachment 7095

It's a 0.6g pole float carrying 8 no 8, 3 no 10 and 1 no 11, all stotz. With this amount of lead, the tip dots down to less than one eight of an inch, so I treat the tip with vaseline and it stands prouder than that, which I can then easily see, while still retaining the sensitivity. The three no 10s are droppers and I frigg about with them constantly. The bulk is 7 no 8s, about a foot from the hook. My personal preference is to close string them, which I like to think minimizes the pendulum effect and reduces tangles, but that's most likely a load of b*ll*cks. In the photo, the rig is set over depth for tench, with a no 8 tight up to the float stem and at 2 inch over depth. The next lead down, a no 11, is set at the dead depth, the crucian mark. Even with the rig overdepth you will still take crucians, you get that gradual sinking bite, so count 3 and lift the pole. I normally feed 10 to 12 expanders, through a cupping kit, every third put in. That is meant to keep the fish on the deck. If you drip feed, using a pole pot, there is every chance the fish will start to take on the drop. In that case you can restring the bulk no 8s to allow for that. The hook is a 16 Drennan silver fish spade end hook. Pete.

so the 11 is set at dead depth 2 inches from the hook ?

 

[bracket]

so the 11 is set at dead depth 2 inches from the hook ?

Paul. The no 11 lead is the float marker for the dead depth and in the photo it is 2 inch below the float which is set at 2 inch overdepth for tench. At the hook end the bottom shot is a number 10 set on the hook length knot. The hook lengths I use are tied at 5 inch. Between the bottom no 10 lead and the bulk of no 8s are two no 10 droppers which are spread evenly between the bulk or bulked at half way between or even added to the bulk leaving just the one dropper so basically trial and error. Pete