help required with Margin fishing

[bennygesserit]

Went to Coppice Friday and after fishing the whip all day I moved to the carp pool in the afternoon
Previously I have had the swim boiling with fish but been unable to catch ( cleanly ) as my very light float was getting wafted all over the place.

I have had more success fishing with just a bomb - in fact I started well on Friday with 3 nice fish in about half an hour , but then the last 2 hours the swim was boiling with fish ( I could see them and their tails ) but apart from the obvious liners I had only 2 possible bites.

When the Korum guys fish they put out a carpet of bait
When Carp feed in the margin I understand they don't necessarily see the food they are eating but are sifting through the bank and ejecting what they don't want from their gills.

If thats the case and coupled with the way the Korum guys fish , when fishing a bomb you cant really have too many fish in your swim
If you were fishing at distance and the water was boiling above your lead you would ( or I would ) think I am in with a chance here
In fact I would think , statistically , one of these fish is bound to eventually sieve the bit of mud with my bait in
Sometimes I fished slack some times tight
I am sitting well back and fishing about a foot or two directly in front of my platform
Sometimes I can identify 6 10 lb plus carp feeding within a 2 -3 foot radius of my bait

When fishing tight they sometimes spook when they feel the line
When fishing slack I suspect they are blowing the bait before they self hook

I am fishing corn or pellet either banded or hair rigged
a Preston size 14 hook

Cheers !

 

[bennygesserit]

YouTube


Des Ship advises this

 

[john step]

Have you tried short hook link and bolt? I sometimes put a rubber bead above the running bomb to give a loose bolt effect. I use a baiting needle and pull the line sideways through the rubber bead. Its safe as it only loosely grips the line.

Then put a couple of tiny blobs of rig putty above that to nail the line to the bottom on a fairly loose line to avoid foul hookers.
Try wafters or balance mini boilies which will be easy for the carp to raise up when sucking. If they are well wised up in your water they may be ignoring bait that doesn't float up when they suck.

 

[Molehill]

I have had similar experiences, typically fishing later in the day when the carp move into the margins to clear up anglers leftovers. I am normally fishing in up to 12 inches of water and sitting well back over a few handfuls of loose feed.
If "educated" carp they can be devils to get a decent bite from, my my normal rig is to freeline (no rig!) possibly with a small indicator on the line like a small piece of rig foam sprayed orange and a slit in it to hold the line, or similar.
Then I have to sit on my hands trying to identify bites from line bites, knowing that they will come eventually however shy the fish.
Good fun if nothing else.

 

[bennygesserit]

Have you tried short hook link and bolt? I sometimes put a rubber bead above the running bomb to give a loose bolt effect. I use a baiting needle and pull the line sideways through the rubber bead. Its safe as it only loosely grips the line.

Then put a couple of tiny blobs of rig putty above that to nail the line to the bottom on a fairly loose line to avoid foul hookers.
Try wafters or balance mini boilies which will be easy for the carp to raise up when sucking. If they are well wised up in your water they may be ignoring bait that doesn't float up when they suck.

I put 2 preston float stops around the bomb so I can do a variable length hook link by moving the bomb up and down in case they are shy of the bomb
Tried Wafters
usually fish a tight line so tomorrow will be using the slack line by default

 

[bennygesserit]

I have had similar experiences, typically fishing later in the day when the carp move into the margins to clear up anglers leftovers. I am normally fishing in up to 12 inches of water and sitting well back over a few handfuls of loose feed.
If "educated" carp they can be devils to get a decent bite from, my my normal rig is to freeline (no rig!) possibly with a small indicator on the line like a small piece of rig foam sprayed orange and a slit in it to hold the line, or similar.
Then I have to sit on my hands trying to identify bites from line bites, knowing that they will come eventually however shy the fish.
Good fun if nothing else.

I have "mugged" fish on these waters ie dangled a floating piece of corn in front of them
The speed in which they take a bait in and blow it out is amazing - almost like a reflex action I wonder , with a slack line , whether I even notice this going on
Is there a way to improve my hook up ratio ?

 

[bennygesserit]

more info from utube

YouTube

 

[108831]

Five or six maggots on the hook,but don't feed any,similarly an inch cube of crust,with at least an AA two inches from the hook,a big lump of paste works too,wait for the rod tip to go round,using the float as a warning that might happen...

 

[bennygesserit]

This video recommends keeping the bait very tight
YouTube

 

[Philip]

Very tight baiting is one idea but then again so is sparse baiting with larger baits. In that case the fish are more likely to be moving from food item to food item individually rather than on mass hoovering up of everything in front of it.

In terms of setup you either try and keep everything out of the way of the fish ...for example try and nail everything to the bottom with a bolt rig or you fish it very slack say with a float ignore the knocks and bumps and wait for the rod to fly in.

Alternative angle ...surface fish.

 

[john step]

Yes agree that what I was trying to get at by saying about the tungsten putty above the bomb to keep everything nailed.

 

[bennygesserit]

cheers Lads !

fished today with a flying back lead pinned at a fixed distance with a drennan float stop
that helped to stop fish spooking off the line
but thats only part of the problem

Fed a little sparser today and had two real good fish from about 4 inches in front of my own platform
the rig was backlead , float stop , bomb , float stop , buffer bead , swivel , 3.5 inch hooklength with built in ( dont know what its called pointy thing that goes through corn think its a built in stop ) bait was hair rigged

didn't get the boiling swim but could see the odd fish feeding in front of my platform ( where the landing net going in and out provides a good surface )
managed to catch a few of them - with some real nice carp in there
Some fell to the hair rigged prawn - noticed that bait not allowed on the venue so switched to meat ( My bad should have read the rules )

Slack line seems better than tight - so I tightened up to the backlead and layed the rig in sideways

very exciting way to fish !

thanks for the replies

 

[rayner]

I've gone totally crude in the margin, the waters I fish both require that anglers use a float if fishing with a pole.
For a float I use a tiny piece of peacock quill, 1/8" with a bait band to hold it on the line, super glued the band to the quill, to stay within the rules. Fish tight to the bank with the pole tip laid on the bank, no slack line, bites are shown with the quill but you'll rarely react before the elastic is dragged from the pole.
Other tactic I use is a simple paste rig, my favourite. Both are fished in 12" to 24" of water.
The only rule I stick to is don't fish the margin until the fish are confidently feeding. If you fish for them too soon they will spook then avoid your margin.
Try not to get too many fish in the swim, feeding too much bait can cause this. Feed a few dead maggots after each bite say half a cup of dead maggot, if fish are slow to appear drop a bait tub full of water, watch for tail patterns or the water muddying.
If you wait more than a few minutes for a bite the fish aren't there.

 

[bennygesserit]

I've gone totally crude in the margin, the waters I fish both require that anglers use a float if fishing with a pole.
For a float I use a tiny piece of peacock quill, 1/8" with a bait band to hold it on the line, super glued the band to the quill, to stay within the rules. Fish tight to the bank with the pole tip laid on the bank, no slack line, bites are shown with the quill but you'll rarely react before the elastic is dragged from the pole.
Other tactic I use is a simple paste rig, my favourite. Both are fished in 12" to 24" of water.
The only rule I stick to is don't fish the margin until the fish are confidently feeding. If you fish for them too soon they will spook then avoid your margin.
Try not to get too many fish in the swim, feeding too much bait can cause this. Feed a few dead maggots after each bite say half a cup of dead maggot, if fish are slow to appear drop a bait tub full of water, watch for tail patterns or the water muddying.
If you wait more than a few minutes for a bite the fish aren't there.

Thanks for this
The maggots do seem to bring them in
The place I fish also requires a float or ledger

Why does having too many fish in the swim cause a problem ? this is the nub of the question really - surely the more fish feeding the more chance you have ?
In actuallity I find the more fish you have the less chance you have of catching but I dont know why

 

[Another Dave]

Feed a few dead maggots after each bite say half a cup of dead maggot, if fish are slow to appear drop a bait tub full of water, watch for tail patterns or the water muddying.

You've lost me there.

 

[rayner]

Thanks for this
The maggots do seem to bring them in
The place I fish also requires a float or ledger

Why does having too many fish in the swim cause a problem ? this is the nub of the question really - surely the more fish feeding the more chance you have ?
In actuallity I find the more fish you have the less chance you have of catching but I dont know why

Too many fish in the swim can cause foul hooking, feeding a limited amount of loose offerings helps to keep numbers of fish down.

 

[rayner]

You've lost me there.

Doesn't have to be a bait tub full in a single splash, drop it in a couple or three smaller splashes.
It sort of mimics anglers washing out their tubs after they've packed in. Fish come to investigate looking for a free feed.
Try it, it works. I spied an angler in the next peg doing it and asked why, the tip came from him.

I only fish commercials, if it works on more natural venues I can't say.

 

[bennygesserit]

Doesn't have to be a bait tub full in a single splash, drop it in a couple or three smaller splashes.
It sort of mimics anglers washing out their tubs after they've packed in. Fish come to investigate looking for a free feed.
Try it, it works. I spied an angler in the next peg doing it and asked why, the tip came from him.

I only fish commercials, if it works on more natural venues I can't say.

Totally agree with this
Have done this plus waved my unhooking mat to empty the spilled bait gone for a walk round and the swim has been full of fish

I don't take it to extremes though I don't say loudly
Well that's enough for me I am going home now
Wink at the ducks and hide behind my chair


That's not true actually sometimes having done this I sit behind my chair while fishing

On some venues it really does work

Like mugging fish works often

 

[bennygesserit]

Too many fish in the swim can cause foul hooking, feeding a limited amount of loose offerings helps to keep numbers of fish down.

That's was my original question really if I float fish with many fish in the swim you can guarantee a foul hook
So I pin the bomb down with a back lead - no foul hooks but also not as many fish as I thought given the swim is boiling

They can be very canny blowing the bait out I have seen them do it when dangling a rig on the surface
I suspect a bomb with a 4 inch hair rigged piece of corn or banded pellet isn't so efficient at catching as I think

 

[john step]

[QUOTE


That's not true actually sometimes having done this I sit behind my chair while fishing

On some venues it really does work

Like mugging fish works often[/QUOTE]

Not as daft as it sounds. I mentioned on here recently about the ploy of putting up a brolly behind me. The margin cruisers seem to view it as a bush and dont seem to realise you are there. Try it,