Who's been a naughty boy then

[daniel121]

I can understand folk not buying their licence. Not that I would ever brake any law.
But there's a big but.
The fisheries I fish in South Yorkshire and North Derbyshire never ever see a EA water bailiff.
Couple that with folk who have no dosh, those out of work or those who are on zero hours contract and low paid work, of course we will get the odd folk who will risk it.
It's wrong but I can understand it and there's no way I will vilify anyone who is caught.
It's not good that everyone throws stones without giving a thought for the poor criminal.

I agree with much of the content of what you say, the capitalism direction of the country seeing the rich get richer and poor poorer is a major problem! Also the villainization of those who fall on hard times is a product of the right via media, however my intention of this thread was not to get into 'my poltics' and ideals.

You may think I'm throwing stones and effectively I am, also correct it's based on little personal knowledge. I have no idea if the person is rich, poor or anywhere inbetween, so I take your criticism and semi apologise if the thread has came accross as a semi well off pensioner, acting self righteous. However that was really not the intention, as I will explain.

I have little sympathy for those who don't pay their fishing licence full stop. The reason for this is it's a small price to pay which gives fishermen of voice, a political voice. Let's take sea fishermen for example they don't pay a licence and they don't have that voice. Personally when Mark downs was caught not paying a fishing licence years back, I thought that is career should be completely over as professional enforcing this sport.

Also what we pay actually goes directly back into fishing and wildlife. I think that is a good thing, the environment agency is a good thing and to me the fishing licence is worth every penny and long may it continue.

 

[rayner]

There could be concessions for people on the dole, a £10 licence maybe, £30 is a hit on the dole which is designed to just keep a person a smidgen above the official poverty line. I knew one commercial that charged less for unemployed people if you proved it and showed the right documents, not only kind but sensible as well, they had plenty of punters. They could do the same for licences, I dont think it would be a bad thing, maybe they would sell more licneces and have less licence crime..
And your right, compared to motoring offences is way off beam, even a wrongly parked car can create an accident and kill someone, when has not having a £30 licence ever harmed anyone and yet you get less for parking offences and no one takes any notice..

And while I am here, £621 for a first offence and a gulty plea is not justice or fairness in my book for a poxy £30, more like victimisation and profiteering by the state; it's a disgrace and because of that I feel very sorry for the bloke; he has become the victim!

I agree.
I would for example class stealing a bottle of milk from a door step a far worse crime than fishing without a licence. Stealing a news paper from a letter box is worse. I'm sure these offences would be just treated with a warning and not even taken to court.
I just can't understand why such a misdemeanour that fishing without a rod licence surely is can earn for the guilty such an outrageous penalty.
Also why have some people become conditioned by the EA with statements like the dodgers are cheating us all.
I don't feel cheated because someone fishing the next peg is not licenced, I appear to be different to most on here, I personally couldn't care less if others have a licence or not, the only thing that concerns me is my licence.
It's nothing more than a minor crime that should be treated as such, if folk have nothing better to do than to call for his head so to speak I'm at a loss for words.
Markg said "the bloke has become a victim" He is totally right.

 

[rayner]

I like your explanation Daniel thank you.
I don't know where the licence monies go, if you are right then that's good.
I do know the monies generated from fine go to the treasury like all fines, not the EA stated earlier in this thread.

 

[Jelster]

It's nothing more than a minor crime that should be treated as such, if folk have nothing better to do than to call for his head so to speak I'm at a loss for words.
Markg said "the bloke has become a victim" He is totally right.

I would suggest that those who can't be bothered to buy a licence are more likely to be those that don't clear up after themselves, leave line in the undergrowth and mistreat the fish.

Those that invest in a licence want to keep the waters in a good state.

 

[rayner]

Are you sure about that Jelster, littering is another misdemeanour. Well pointed out.

 

[daniel121]

I like your explanation Daniel thank you.
I don't know where the licence monies go, if you are right then that's good.
I do know the monies generated from fine go to the treasury like all fines, not the EA stated earlier in this thread.

Welcome mate, we won't always agree nobody can agree with me all the time

You are correct about court fines going to treasury coffers and this does not get spent back on angling, which adds strength to your comment, I can see and understand what you are saying but, I don't agree with it.

Firstly, this person isn't a victim at all in my eyes, this topic has now drifted into allocation of fines and justification of fines. I personally agree with Peter Jacobs on this, following the current system effectively means the small laws don't apply to the uber wealthy. I remember some publicity about Keith Richards paying his smoking fine in advance before the gig, about 4 years ago! As funny as that is and as much as I like the stones, it's wrong!

I would much rather see proportionate fines to wealth, whenever you mention that people jump in straight to the extreme saying that 'you are OK with fined £500,000 for example for a speeding ticket of a whatever, then?'. Well that's a strawman, what should be said is, are you happy with a proportionate fine which stung but did not bust their bank balance? If a persons is hurt but not wounded by a 500,000 pound fine, the same way I'm hurt by a 1000 pound fine and someone else is to a 50 pound fine. The pain the the individual is the same.

Progressive not regressive, progressive is always the best way. In my opinion, guess we will have to agree to differ mate

 

[bonjqvi]

im not sure on this so dont quote me as gospel , buy £600 is the set amount you get charged if you cant be bothered to turn up in court and plead your case ,
if you turn up it maybe £200 but if you just wait till the fine drops through the door its £600 standard

 

[daniel121]

im not sure on this so dont quote me as gospel , buy £600 is the set amount you get charged if you cant be bothered to turn up in court and plead your case ,
if you turn up it maybe £200 but if you just wait till the fine drops through the door its £600 standard

I don't think that is the case, I thought fishing without a licence was a maximum of 5k?

 

[Keith M]

You don’t have to pay for a junior licence although you are still advised to obtain a free junior licence in advance ; so why don’t the NRA create a similar licence for the few genuinely unemployed people which would allow them to fish for free occasionally, even if it was only valid for 6 months before you had to renew it.

Its not the genuinely unemployed that I resent for not having a rod licence it’s the type of Angler who is just too lazy or tight to bother buying one that really annoys me (tight g*ts).

Yes the NRA need to get their ship in order but they do perform a valid task, even though it seems they don’t; especially when they are never seen at some waters in some areas, but if they were seen everyday at most waters checking for rod licences they wouldn’t have enough staff left to man their other main core tasks.

Plus I have always had a rod licence, even when I was unemployed for a few months, because I got some family member to buy one for me for my birthday (or my Xmas present); and if I could do that why don’t a lot of others? :wh

NB: I do realise that some unemployed people don’t have any working family members to scrounge from, Im only kidding, honest :wh

Keith

 

[bonjqvi]

yes but I believe in all cases , the maximum penalty that can be awarded in all cases of any wrong doing ie tv licence council tax drink driving etc , is only ever dished out if the guilty party flatly refuses to pay as in a court room im not paying your honour or your before this court again for not paying your fine why not ,im not going to pay.
they would not issue a maximum unless provoked, so a standard £600 take that and get a licence before you go again

 

[gaz40k]

I can see the point about some folk just not being able to afford one.

I'd have alot more sympathy for an unemployed young lad fishing with 100 quids worth of Argos gear he got for christmas, fishing a free water with a couple of quids worth of maggots than a fully tackled up match man with 20 quids worth of bait on his side tray, 20 quid in the tank to get there and a tenner on a day ticket.

I used to be the first example and on the rare occasion I could justify 30 quid, it would of went on replacing the cheapo feeder rod I was using or a months worth of bait, that said, a day licence was 3 quid back then so I always just bought them.

I do think £6 for a day licence is a bit much and probably puts off more casual/occasional anglers from bothering with one at all.

I'm assuming here but I think this guy in question is likely the second example given he has gone to the sort of commercial fishery that a couple of quids worth of maggots isn't going to do much and he has traveled a fair way to get there too.

All told, you do the crime, you take the punishment. We all know it. but id like to think we could have some sympathy for some cases.
Would you judge a single mother stealing some bread to feed her kids because her benefits have been stopped the same as a well off person stealing a bottle of flash perfume just because they fancy it?

 

[rayner]

Hypothetically.
What if the fined refused to pay the fine, he'd go to prison, right.
On top of that what if there were thousands refusing to pay the fine. With the amount it costs to look after prisoners we would be in a fine state. Would it be viable to prosecute the unemployed.
There would be nothing wrong with a Fishing licence being means tested in my opinion.

 

[John Keane]

As somebody mentioned earlier in the thread, it wasn’t mentioned whether he was unemployed, bought the licence from a third party pirate or has depression, etc, etc. What is a fact is that he was trying to cheat the system and, therefore, deserves everything he gets. Bleeding hearts feel free to pass the smelling salts!

 

[rayner]

As somebody mentioned earlier in the thread, it wasn’t mentioned whether he was unemployed, bought the licence from a third party pirate or has depression, etc, etc. What is a fact is that he was trying to cheat the system and, therefore, deserves everything he gets. Bleeding hearts feel free to pass the smelling salts!

Tut tut tut.

 

[John Keane]

Tut tut tut.

Ho ho ho...

 

[103841]

I’m just hoping it was Weirdoh.

 

[Another Dave]

I do think £6 for a day licence is a bit much and probably puts off more casual/occasional anglers from bothering with one at all.

What about your first day license only costing, say, £2, your second day of the year £3 then it goes up to £6?

 

[daniel121]

There would be nothing wrong with a Fishing licence being means tested in my opinion.

Agree in heart but not in head! I will explain, that type of licencing opens a massive can of worms by way of setting up a huge precedence for other state licencing, then public services and so on and so on. BTW its one I'm personally not so apposed too, but I am intelligent enough to know I am in the minority and thus it should not happen.

I do personally think punishment fines should be means tested with my heart and head! like I stated earlier in the topic, there is literally no punishment in fines that don't get felt by the offender. This completely renders fines pointless because in theory, a fine is not a stealth tax, its a deterrent to enforce the law.

 

[steve2]

Just got round to reading this post I can’t believe what a lot of bleeding hearts we have on here.
Just been fine £120 for overstaying a few minutes in a car park £60 if I am a good boy and pay up. When did parking become such a serious crime?
Can I have all your sympathy now please?

 

[John Keane]

Just got round to reading this post I can’t believe what a lot of bleeding hearts we have on here.
Just been fine £120 for overstaying a few minutes in a car park £60 if I am a good boy and pay up. When did parking become such a serious crime?
Can I have all your sympathy now please?

...er, no!