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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
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    leafy cheshire
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    10,692

    Default Re: Who's been a naughty boy then

    Quote Originally Posted by rayner View Post
    It's not good that everyone throws stones without giving a thought for the poor criminal.
    I have no sympathy for criminals who deliberately break the law. Many motoring offences are strict liability and there is no need for the prosecution to prove intent. There are many poor people who do not break the law and they should be respected.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    South Yorkshire.
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    Default Re: Who's been a naughty boy then

    Some people get help from the Government with rent not food though, food banks provide that for families who struggle.
    There was an article on the national news regarding clubs run by schools to provide at least one meal a day where it's needed. For people that I would call abandoned by the people who make decisions is abysmal to say the least.
    OK in the great scheme of things no licence = no fishing. I believe that fishing is not just a pastime/hobby/sport, it is also a release from the constant struggle of trying to run a household and feeding kids, or mental illness. If you think it makes you a better person for turning your back then I'm dumbfounded. I prefer to keep my gob shut instead of throwing stones at anyone.
    For people in need there should be help from the powers that be for folk who cannot afford to pay their dues. If a licence comes under that I could see nothing wrong
    It's all well and good to poke the finger or throw stones at the unfortunate but there has to be a little compassion.
    To liken fishing without a licence on a par with motoring offences that is totally absurd.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    New Forest, Hampshire
    Posts
    4,458

    Default Re: Who's been a naughty boy then

    The law is the law and rules are rules. Falling on hard times doesn’t and should not mean that you get a free pass to flout those laws.

    There may a debate to be had regarding people facing tough challenges and how best to support them, but that is a separate debate IMO.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    South East England
    Posts
    3,782

    Default Re: Who's been a naughty boy then

    Quote Originally Posted by rayner View Post
    Some people get help from the Government with rent not food though, food banks provide that for families who struggle.
    There was an article on the national news regarding clubs run by schools to provide at least one meal a day where it's needed. For people that I would call abandoned by the people who make decisions is abysmal to say the least.
    OK in the great scheme of things no licence = no fishing. I believe that fishing is not just a pastime/hobby/sport, it is also a release from the constant struggle of trying to run a household and feeding kids, or mental illness. If you think it makes you a better person for turning your back then I'm dumbfounded. I prefer to keep my gob shut instead of throwing stones at anyone.
    For people in need there should be help from the powers that be for folk who cannot afford to pay their dues. If a licence comes under that I could see nothing wrong
    It's all well and good to poke the finger or throw stones at the unfortunate but there has to be a little compassion.
    To liken fishing without a licence on a par with motoring offences that is totally absurd.
    There could be concessions for people on the dole, a £10 licence maybe, £30 is a hit on the dole which is designed to just keep a person a smidgen above the official poverty line. I knew one commercial that charged less for unemployed people if you proved it and showed the right documents, not only kind but sensible as well, they had plenty of punters. They could do the same for licences, I dont think it would be a bad thing, maybe they would sell more licneces and have less licence crime..
    And your right, compared to motoring offences is way off beam, even a wrongly parked car can create an accident and kill someone, when has not having a £30 licence ever harmed anyone and yet you get less for parking offences and no one takes any notice..

    And while I am here, £621 for a first offence and a gulty plea is not justice or fairness in my book for a poxy £30, more like victimisation and profiteering by the state; it's a disgrace and because of that I feel very sorry for the bloke; he has become the victim!
    Last edited by markg; 28-08-2019 at 06:41.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Kent
    Posts
    4,079

    Default Re: Who's been a naughty boy then

    Have I missed something? I can’t find anywhere that this man is either poor, unemployed or bought a licence through a third party. The law is a complete shambles with an inability to match a penalty to the crime, however if this is a man of wealth then there maybe some justification for the fine.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Location
    RAINWORTH
    Posts
    40
    Blog Entries
    3

    Default Re: Who's been a naughty boy then

    I agree that its a small price to pay for a years worth of fun ,irispective of wealth dole hard up etc .but I also find not everyone should be tarred with the same brush .
    3yrs ago my so was hard up and only went fishing about 4 or 5 times in the summer months so he used to go to the post office and buy a daily ticket something I didnt know existed until then ,when ever he wanted to go .
    well he went to devon cornwall area for a holiday and took his tackle as there were plenty of ponds advertised on the holiday site ,well when he went he asked the balliff what the crack was as in site rules and if he needed a licence the answer was NO hey ho after 5hrs fishing tap on shoulder can I see you licence . baliff was not there lots of letters phonecalls denied everything .court £200 lucky it could have been worse

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    South East England
    Posts
    3,782

    Default Re: Who's been a naughty boy then

    Quote Originally Posted by s63 View Post
    Have I missed something? I can’t find anywhere that this man is either poor, unemployed or bought a licence through a third party. The law is a complete shambles with an inability to match a penalty to the crime, however if this is a man of wealth then there maybe some justification for the fine.
    If thats a reference to my post, I was not saying he should get a less fine if poor ect, my post was in two parts with one referencing licence fee concessions for unemployed people. The other was that £621 for a first time pleaded guilty to £30 crime is unfair and more like profiteering by the state irrespective of the mans wealth and I really don't like that at all. Fines should fit the crime and not for profit, this man is a victim of a crime by the state imo..
    I know I am on my own in this, always have been and always will be, but that's what I think, always have and always will. I am not saying it's not a crime and should be punishable but it's way over done and I resent the AT for driving a lot of this. it's a £30 crime, thats all it is, nothing much is it.
    Last edited by markg; 28-08-2019 at 08:12.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    South West Wilts
    Posts
    146

    Default Re: Who's been a naughty boy then

    If the punishment doesn't hurt then people are likely to offend again. £621 is short of the £1,000 which (I think) is the limit of the fine, and that £621 included costs etc.

    If you can't do the time, don't do the crime......

    I've never complained about a speeding ticket, I was speeding, got caught, paid the fine. You know you are breaking the law so you have no excuse. £30 for a licence isn't a lot really, it could be more....

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    In God's County: Wiltshire
    Posts
    22,187
    Blog Entries
    6

    Default Re: Who's been a naughty boy then

    In all honesty, I have zero sympathy for anyone who is caught fishing without a valid licence.

    The maximum tariff for not having a valid licence is, I believe, £5,000 so one can equally make a case for this person being very fortunate in getting off with 600 quid fine . . . . .

    Personally I think any fine should be levied as a percentage of one's income . . . . as this is surely the most fair and even way of aportioning the punishment.

    A paltry £60 FPN to someone earning on excess of £100k per annum is meaningless whereas to someone of the minimum wage could be devastating.

    In many counties in Norway speeding is punishable by one month's salary (gross) for every 10 kph that you exceed the limit . . . . . now that concentrates the mind to a grand extent and you rarely see anyone tearing down the road in their car.

    Scholars have long known that fishing eventually turns men into philosophers.

    Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to buy decent tackle on a philosopher's salary. ~

    Patrick F. McManus






  10. #20

    Default Re: Who's been a naughty boy then

    I always buy the license and I agree people who don't should face a fine. The fine should be adjusted to reflect their income and means; the better off they are, the more cynical the offence; the worse off, the more even a small fine bites.

    I have some sympathy with the view that we should remember many people live in circumstances that make it more likely they will risk fishing without the license, and I don't think a vicious tone is called for when the circumstances of a particular offender are unknown.

    I think we should recognise the scale of the offence: it may be irritating that some bloke next to us on the bank has no license, but it's nothing compared to the driver behind us who has no insurance or driving license.

    I occasionally find it odd that many anglers who don't have a good word for the EA and declare the license a waste of money, are eager to excoriate offenders.

    It's hard to avoid being a bit political (small p) on a crime and punishment topic, but at the back of my view on this is my experience that most of my self-employed acquaintances would think nothing of "saving" the equivalent amount to a license fee by a bit of VAT or tax creativity, about which they wouldn't even feel guilty.

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