Global warming? Oh no not again!!!

[steve2]

And are we ignoring how much has changed already just a bit in this country at least. I never thought coal energy would go. I never thought electric cars would be possible and the petrol companies would close it down if they were, maybe they will cure the pollution in inner cities eventually. The sale of plastic carrier bags have diminished and paper ones are coming back. Recycling and separation of waste. It is all in its infancy but it is going to keep going. I think one day other sources of clean energy will get invented like cold fusion or something. With a bit of luck someone will invent foolproof leak proof slurry tanks. I don’t know why that has not happened already.
Of course there is a long way to go and it has to happen in every country but I think the next generations are going to be on it in a big way.

What you say is true in a small way. We may recycle but most ends up dumped or sent aboard. Single use bags have been replaced by bags for life which contain even more plastic. Electric cars are only ever going to be available to those that can afford them. Renewable energy can never replace the energy needs of the world.
We are killing this planet and very few are really bothered we would much rather just carry on as normal and blame others.

Judging by the news Global warming is about to rise once again through the actions of the human race.

 

[no-one in particular]

What you say is true in a small way. We may recycle but most ends up dumped or sent aboard. Single use bags have been replaced by bags for life which contain even more plastic. Electric cars are only ever going to be available to those that can afford them. Renewable energy can never replace the energy needs of the world.
We are killing this planet and very few are really bothered we would much rather just carry on as normal and blame others.

Judging by the news Global warming is about to rise once again through the actions of the human race.

I don’t know much about the price of cars but I see Vauxhall have brought out a new all electric car with zero emissions for £15.000, is that cheap? If it isn’t I expect the price will come down especially as the new generations of drivers are going to be more environmentally aware and demanding for cars like this.
Recycling is not as big a success as once thought but again I think the next generations will sort this out. My local Morrison’s have paper bags for 25p, they also have plastic ones still but judging by the way the paper ones disappear so quickly, most people are buying them,. I expect this will be the norm in all super markets one day.
Renewable energy is where it is but I was more referring to that new ways of giving us the energy might be developed in the future, not my subject but cold fusion, harnessing solar wind or something might be developed in the future. The onus on this will become paramount; Just an unknowledgeable guess but I just think it is possible.
My generation is responsible for killing this planet, ignorant and stupid, just consumed whatever was thrown at us without a care, only for our own instant gratification however, I think that will be a lot different for the younger ones growing up and they will be more educated, demanding from governments, industry and everything else.
I am not disagreeing with you for the sake of it, I fully understand why you feel that way, I have felt it many times but I am just not going to ignore all that has happened, it is small and the effect is small but it is happening. I just think the human race will survive and solve its problems, it may not and we may have created too big a problem to get over and we may be overwhelmed by it all but I remain optimistic.
The rise in temperatures is worrying, I have never worried by the .85 rise to date and I don’t think we know all there is to know yet, I think there may be other reasons for it, not just CO2. And I do not trust science predictions, they don’t have a good record for predicting the future however, it is becoming hard to ignore things like the fires in Australia, the floods, and the ice melt so I have come round to the thinking that we do need to heed these things and I think we are and will even more in the future.
I know I have a too simplistic view of things and they can be pulled apart by those with more detailed knowledge but I will keep my faith in the future.

 

[laguna]

And are we ignoring how much has changed already just a bit in this country at least. I never thought coal energy would go. I never thought electric cars would be possible and the petrol companies would close it down if they were, maybe they will cure the pollution in inner cities eventually. The sale of plastic carrier bags have diminished and paper ones are coming back. Recycling and separation of waste. It is all in its infancy but it is going to keep going. I think one day other sources of clean energy will get invented like cold fusion or something. With a bit of luck someone will invent foolproof leak proof slurry tanks. I don’t know why that has not happened already.
Of course there is a long way to go and it has to happen in every country but I think the next generations are going to be on it in a big way.

What you say is true in a small way. We may recycle but most ends up dumped or sent aboard. Single use bags have been replaced by bags for life which contain even more plastic. Electric cars are only ever going to be available to those that can afford them. Renewable energy can never replace the energy needs of the world.
We are killing this planet and very few are really bothered we would much rather just carry on as normal and blame others.

Judging by the news Global warming is about to rise once again through the actions of the human race.

I don’t know much about the price of cars but I see Vauxhall have brought out a new all electric car with zero emissions for £15.000, is that cheap? If it isn’t I expect the price will come down especially as the new generations of drivers are going to be more environmentally aware and demanding for cars like this.
Recycling is not as big a success as once thought but again I think the next generations will sort this out. My local Morrison’s have paper bags for 25p, they also have plastic ones still but judging by the way the paper ones disappear so quickly, most people are buying them,. I expect this will be the norm in all super markets one day.
Renewable energy is where it is but I was more referring to that new ways of giving us the energy might be developed in the future, not my subject but cold fusion, harnessing solar wind or something might be developed in the future. The onus on this will become paramount; Just an unknowledgeable guess but I just think it is possible.
My generation is responsible for killing this planet, ignorant and stupid, just consumed whatever was thrown at us without a care, only for our own instant gratification however, I think that will be a lot different for the younger ones growing up and they will be more educated, demanding from governments, industry and everything else.
I am not disagreeing with you for the sake of it, I fully understand why you feel that way, I have felt it many times but I am just not going to ignore all that has happened, it is small and the effect is small but it is happening. I just think the human race will survive and solve its problems, it may not and we may have created too big a problem to get over and we may be overwhelmed by it all but I remain optimistic.
The rise in temperatures is worrying, I have never worried by the .85 rise to date and I don’t think we know all there is to know yet, I think there may be other reasons for it, not just CO2. And I do not trust science predictions, they don’t have a good record for predicting the future however, it is becoming hard to ignore things like the fires in Australia, the floods, and the ice melt so I have come round to the thinking that we do need to heed these things and I think we are and will even more in the future.
I know I have a too simplistic view of things and they can be pulled apart by those with more detailed knowledge but I will keep my faith in the future.

Guys, my beef is with the propagandists as you well know, particularly their false C02 narrative. I am not against opinion per se, I just cannot accept claims made by people with a vested interest learned or otherwise.
That aside, I'm passionate about the environment like most people, particularly with regards to sustainable green energy, but the current emphasis on wind, solar and wave is unreliable and expensive. Fusion may be the next big thing but you will have the greens to contend with in order to further develop it. It won't be easy. Even if it was It will be expensive.
If I had another life time to live I would pursue a project I've been involved with which would (for a fact) produce enough renewable energy to last forever - carbon neutral - 100% sustainable. I'm taking about hydrogen production, locally produced and utilised at source from water - the so called Hydrogen economy!
Years ago I designed a small scale device that produces hydrogen (H1+) split from tap water in a self sustaining environment. Unlike the dirigible of old, there is zero risk of explosion or toxic gasses to contend with. In fact the only thing that comes out of the exhaust is pure water that's infinitely recycled back into the system as it recombines with atmospheric oxygen. As an energy carrier hydrogen fuel cells can be retro fitted to vehicles or burned in modified engines, home heating, cooking or even scaled to industrial levels to melt steel and even tungsten. However as said; I would need another life time to proceed in it's further development or at the very least; a handsome grant to pay for a team of researchers as I plan to retire in 5 years. All I know at this moment in time, is that my desktop sized heater works for pennies. I may bequeath it.

Anyway.
back on topic... Every time these virtue-signalling prats appear on Twitter or TV whining about all the animals killed, they deserve a slap in the face with a burned koala. James Delingpole's take on the largely 'preventable' bush fires ravishing Australia: Delingpole: Environmentalists Made Australia's Bush Fires Worse

Happy new year to all on FM.

 

[lambert1]

That is really interesting Chris as I had read somewhere that the only reason hydrogen cars are not being produced is because of the explosive nature of the gas and the problems that this would cause in collisions. If I am reading what you said correctly, that is baloney and we are being treated like mushrooms.

 

[peterjg]

Laguna, your last post was very interesting. I seem to recall that there was a report about a hydrogen powered high altitude aircraft being invented? This would have been about 30 years ago? Conspiracy sceptics thought that the invention was bought by the oil companies?

 

[no-one in particular]

I have also heard of hydrogen fuel, that’s what I was trying to say about the future, that or cold fusion or some unseen impossible thing like harnessing the solar wind will become a reality and we will solve the problem of clean , safe efficient energy one day. We are stupid and make mistakes but we are also clever and inventive enough to ensure our survival. I have seen the invention of booms that are clearing the ocean of plastic debris, these will be developed further and although it will not solve the micro plastic that already exists, this and other initiatives might just stop it getting worse. Oil will run out one day but I expect electric cars to become the norm long before then and that will clean up the air considerably.
Electric cars are a lot cooler than petrol ones; half a billion cars on the road at any given time with petrol engine temperatures of 200 degrees must be a contributed factor to global warming. I have always thought it significant that global warming has more or less coincided with the invention of all the heat producing machines we use but, I cannot do the thermal maths to work it out however, it must be a contributory factor, electric cars should make difference.

 

[peterjg]

Markg, re your last post I am sure that you are right. Apart from the car engines producing heat the effect of radiation on the metal bodywork and greenhouse effect on the windows, when the doors are opened yet more heat escapes into the atmosphere which might otherwise have been absorbed.

 

[nottskev]

I was about to look at the Delingpole video. But then it occurred to me this could just be the same Delingpole who writes the anti-liberal, anti-lefty stuff for Breitbart, The Daily Mail, The Daily Telegraph etc etc. Think Rod Liddle, Melanie Phillips, Richard Littlejohn …journalists of that ilk. He is on record as regretting that he never got in to the Bullingdon Club with Dave and Boris.

It could even be the same Delingpole who, in a tv discussion with a Nobel prize-winning geneticist, about his hobbyhorse of dismissing the idea of scientific consensus, was asked what treatment he would wish for cancer – the one indicated by scientific consensus or the the fringe “cure” of orange juice? He declined to answer and later claimed he has been intellectually raped on the programme.

It might also be the Delingpole who explained that he has no time to read peer-reviewed scientific papers; his job – paid to drive traffic to conservative newspaper websites - is to wage political warfare against liberals and lefties.

He may be amusing if you share his politics. He’s also a perfect example of how politics tries to undermine science and bamboozle the public, and no antidote to propaganda.

 

[steve2]

Does anyone on here own an all electric car if so how far does it go between charges and how long does charging take?
Do you plan your route around charging points?

 

[no-one in particular]

Does anyone on here own an all electric car if so how far does it go between charges and how long does charging take?
Do you plan your route around charging points?

I think they are claiming 250 miles on the new Vauxhall.

 

[no-one in particular]

Markg, re your last post I am sure that you are right. Apart from the car engines producing heat the effect of radiation on the metal bodywork and greenhouse effect on the windows, when the doors are opened yet more heat escapes into the atmosphere which might otherwise have been absorbed.

I wonder how much motorways heat up with all that friction as well.
Most of these temperature rises are measured from about 1880, there were no cars, fridges, televisions, light bulbs, central etc then and 5 billion more of us switching them on every day and they number in the millions. The amount of heat being thrown out by them into the atmosphere every day must be considerable.

 

[John Keane]

Jesus, some long replies on this thread. Life is too short (and getting shorter due to Global Warming and CO2 emissions). I’m firmly with “the propagandists” (isn’t labelling them propagandists just another form of propaganda from the naysayers).

I’m with Greta and Sir David right down the line!

 

[bennygesserit]

Guys, my beef is with the propagandists as you well know, particularly their false C02 narrative. I am not against opinion per se, I just cannot accept claims made by people with a vested interest learned or otherwise.
That aside, I'm passionate about the environment like most people, particularly with regards to sustainable green energy, but the current emphasis on wind, solar and wave is unreliable and expensive. Fusion may be the next big thing but you will have the greens to contend with in order to further develop it. It won't be easy. Even if it was It will be expensive.
If I had another life time to live I would pursue a project I've been involved with which would (for a fact) produce enough renewable energy to last forever - carbon neutral - 100% sustainable. I'm taking about hydrogen production, locally produced and utilised at source from water - the so called Hydrogen economy!
Years ago I designed a small scale device that produces hydrogen (H1+) split from tap water in a self sustaining environment. Unlike the dirigible of old, there is zero risk of explosion or toxic gasses to contend with. In fact the only thing that comes out of the exhaust is pure water that's infinitely recycled back into the system as it recombines with atmospheric oxygen. As an energy carrier hydrogen fuel cells can be retro fitted to vehicles or burned in modified engines, home heating, cooking or even scaled to industrial levels to melt steel and even tungsten. However as said; I would need another life time to proceed in it's further development or at the very least; a handsome grant to pay for a team of researchers as I plan to retire in 5 years. All I know at this moment in time, is that my desktop sized heater works for pennies. I may bequeath it.

Anyway.
back on topic... Every time these virtue-signalling prats appear on Twitter or TV whining about all the animals killed, they deserve a slap in the face with a burned koala. James Delingpole's take on the largely 'preventable' bush fires ravishing Australia: Delingpole: Environmentalists Made Australia's Bush Fires Worse

Happy new year to all on FM.

purleease is that the level of our debate now ! Click bait right wing trolls ?

Its been common knowledge for 40 years that , in some areas regular burns are part of the natural cycle.
Kids looking for kicks seem to have started quite a lot of these fires.


You cannot look at one incident and deduce climate change or infer its not there, like Trump saying well it snowed last week so climate change cant be right.

As far as I can tell the only ones denying climate change are the vested interests of oil and the right who have hijacked the issue to garner votes among the older generation and for clickbait.

If 95 percent of peer reviewed research is telling us the changes are real and accelerating who would you believe - science or a Delingpole troll who posts pictures of the black and white minstrels in order to bolster his viewing figures.

 

[lureed]

He may be amusing if you share his politics. He’s also a perfect example of how politics tries to undermine science and bamboozle the public, and no antidote to propaganda.

Do you not believe that there are political aims behind some of those espousing climate action? The following was part of a statement released during the Madrid Climate Conference, signed by Greta Thumburg and two other climate activists, Luisa Neubaumer and Angela Valenzuela:

…the climate crisis is not just about the environment, it is a crisis of human rights, of justice, and of political will. Colonial, racist, and patriarchal systems of oppression have caused and fuelled it. We need to dismantle them all….":https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/climate-strikes-un-conference-madrid-by-greta-thunberg-et-al-2019-11

 

[bennygesserit]

Do you not believe that there are political aims behind some of those espousing climate action? The following was part of a statement released during the Madrid Climate Conference, signed by Greta Thumburg and two other climate activists, Luisa Neubaumer and Angela Valenzuela:

…the climate crisis is not just about the environment, it is a crisis of human rights, of justice, and of political will. Colonial, racist, and patriarchal systems of oppression have caused and fuelled it. We need to dismantle them all….":Why We Strike Again by Greta Thunberg, Luisa Neubauer and Angela Valenzuela - Project Syndicate

great name !

However Greta is , a little , off the point , she isnt part of the vast scientific community that is telling us that Climate Change is real and is accelerating

 

[no-one in particular]

great name !

However Greta is , a little , off the point , she isnt part of the vast scientific community that is telling us that Climate Change is real and is accelerating

I don't think people trust scientists. The problem with science is it has to absolutely prove it's hypothesis and predictions without any doubt. Einstein had to prove gravity bends light before everyone believed him. They will also doubt global warming, not as a fact but their analysis of it. Throw in fear propaganda, self interest and their denial of anything that might suggest they may have not have it all right and you will get a lot of doubters.

 

[lambert1]

Yes, both sides of the argument have their own scientists and it is hard for people to know who or what to believe. Scientists don't in general work for free and have to be backed by someone. It is not surprising that people do not trust them. To many scientists sound like Stanley Unwin. Much of Greta's appeal is that most people can understand what she is concerned about and her reaction to what she sees as a very serious situation.

 

[steve2]

After reading all these posts I think the one thing we all agree on is not to agree about where global warming comes from.
The only thing we do appear agree on is that population is out of control. Without it being controlled through wars, famine or disease the future of this planet is bleak.

The one thing we do know for certain is that in the future this planet will die with or without our help so enjoy it while you can.

 

[nottskev]

Do you not believe that there are political aims behind some of those espousing climate action?

Of course there are. Leaving aside for a moment the issue of how of how science is done and by whom, all sides in the debate can be termed political. Campaigning for public health goals, such as a sustainable living environment is political; campaigning to keep the world a profitable place for oil industries etc at whatever risk to the public is political.

Think about an analogous situation in the history of tobacco and public health. As medical science amassed evidence of the role of tobacco in a range of sub-lethal and lethal diseases, the tobacco industry responded, over decades, with massive investment in "science" designed to endlessly insist the case against them had not been sufficiently proven, maintain doubt in the public's mind, hold regulation at bay, and tranquilise the guilt and fear that threatened their customer base and hampered recruiting new young smokers.

Politics is the process where competing demands for power are fought out and decided. Money talks and it's not hard to see where the big money lies.

 

[lambert1]

Smoking is a really good example Kev. I have lost count of those (including my Grandad) that died of smoking related illness. I think the Marlborough man ended up suing the company (if I remember correctly) and BAT is still a major company and probably in a few pension funds as well.