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  1. #41
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    Default Re: Global warming? Oh no not again!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by fishface1 View Post
    And you have to remember that very nearly half the people in this country are below average intelligence.....
    How do you measure intelligence?

  2. #42
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    Default Re: Global warming? Oh no not again!!!

    As there is in so many recent big issue arguments, this one seems to go in for total polarity. The assumption is that you are an absolute believer, or you are an absolute denyer. There's no room for grey areas in modern debate.

    As much as many refuse to allow it, I'm utterly cynical about it all and remain somewhere in the middle. I firmly believe that the climate is changing, just as it always has. However, I'm less convinced that human activity plays such a massive part. There's a good chance that human activity has accelerated an underlying cycle, but that's about all.

    As far as I'm concerned, the extremists on both sides are largely driven by self interest. There is huge money riding on either extreme. Far too much vested interest for me to ever take it all at face value. Some of the money is so confused as to which way things might go that it's hedgeing its bets and backing both sides.

    If you wish to discern the truth of these big debate points, look at where the money is. There will undoubtedly be folks shouting loudly that have more altruistic ideals. Sadly, an awful lot of them are likely to be being manipulated by the money anyway. Chances are that if anyone has the inclination to lecture the general public on any topic, they'll have some kind of vested interest. If those individuals don't, then the media that gives them a platform will.

  3. #43
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    Default Re: Global warming? Oh no not again!!!

    The real concerns we can all reunite around and agree on: habitat destruction, invasive species, plastic pollution, pesticides, GMO's, over-fishing, clearcutting, deforestation, destruction of whole eco systems (dredging), wildlife poaching, fracking, the list goes on..



    Merry Christmas to one and all!

    [/QUOTE]

    Yes these are major concerns Chris and perhaps they sometimes fall under the banner of climate change. Deforestation in particular springs to mind. I remain unconvinced, but watched the youtube clip with interest. Thanks for putting it out there. There were certainly things that I was not aware of.

    Merry Christmas to you too.
    By the time a man realizes his Father was right, he has a son who thinks he's wrong.

  4. #44

    Default Global warming? Oh no not again!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by steve2 View Post
    How do you measure intelligence?
    Good point. But by any metric, almost half the people will be below the average. The complication is probably the definition of “average”.....

    In other news, and probably a bit looney left for some:

    George Monbiot on The Great Global Warming Swindle | Opinion | The Guardian

  5. #45
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    Default Re: Global warming? Oh no not again!!!

    My stance is that regardless of the truth and I'm on the fence generally, can we take the risk and do nothing. If the warming is cyclical then it won't change any time soon. Beware of big business however. It would sell a thermal suit to a Bedouin.

  6. #46

    Default Re: Global warming? Oh no not again!!!

    It is cold in the desert at night.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  7. #47
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    Default Re: Global warming? Oh no not again!!!

    I know. I could have picked a better example if I had had the inclination.

  8. #48

    Default Re: Global warming? Oh no not again!!!

    I agree the debate gets unhelpfully polarised. But I'm not inclined to think that because "both" (of course there are more than two) sides can be said to be funded, neither is to be believed. Being funded doesn't invalidate scientific work, and there's a world of difference between work on risks to public health funded by government, and work done for industrial and business sponsors to serve their interests, even when their interests are plainly at odds with public health. The motivation, not the money, is the key.

    I get the impression that the debate is often not between people with conflicting ideas about eg the part played by CO2 v water vapour in producing greenhouse effects. It seems more that people pick a side, usually in line with other political (small p) views, stick to it and use any scraps of information they come across to beat the other side over the head with. It's no coincidence, for example, that climate change denial sits comfortably and predictably with support for Trump-ish politics, even when the leaders, expressed views on the issues are barely coherent and involve no detail, let alone science.

  9. #49
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    Default Re: Global warming? Oh no not again!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by mikench View Post
    I know. I could have picked a better example if I had had the inclination.
    "They could have sold a pole to me" would have been a good example

  10. #50
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    Default Re: Global warming? Oh no not again!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by nottskev View Post
    Being funded doesn't invalidate scientific work, and there's a world of difference between work on risks to public health funded by government, and work done for industrial and business sponsors to serve their interests, even when their interests are plainly at odds with public health. The motivation, not the money, is the key.
    Being funded doesn't necessarily invalidate scientific work. However, the source of the funding can certainly influence the direction that the work takes and how much work in a particular direction that there is. Before we even consider wider industry (wind, solar etc), there are an awful lot of scientific, endeavours, and scientists, whose futures depend entirely upon man made global warming being as significant a factor as they might try to suggest. In an equal and opposite manner, there are plenty on the opposite side of the coin whose future rides on it being insignificant. I don't have much faith in either side and suspect that the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Right or wrong, I don't believe that scientific endeavour is the incorruptible academic one, that's entirely benevolent, that some would like to believe.

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