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  1. #101
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    Default Re: Global warming? Oh no not again!!!

    There is a huge difference between the anti-smoking campaigns and the measures that will be necessary to combat Climate Change will be so far reaching as to alter the way most people live their lives today.

    Everything from what you drive, how you heat your home, commute to and from work and even what you eat (and where it comes from) will need to alter, and in some cases drastically so.

    In order to have any real (and lasting) effect those changes will have to be more or less world wide, and to be totally candid I fail to see how that will ever come to pass.

    How countires like China, Brazil, India and the Indonesian terrirotries can be made to take some measures that will be deeply injurious to their economies and cultres is a complete mystery to conventional thinking.

    Then add in that in America you have a regime that is completley anti Clmate Change to the point where all references to it have been excluded from all future trade agreements with the USA.

    In the meantime we can struggle-on using our bags for life and segregating our garbage I suppose.

    PS: As for oil "running out" Iran have just published details of their latest discovery of approx., 55bl barrels. and that equates to 55bl times 79 US gallons per barrel, times 14% more when cracked at the refinery . . . .

    PPS: I am very sceptical when it comes to electric car mileage claims as it seems that the claimed figures are only from a straight run . . . . no stopping and starting, no long hill climbs or excessive loads in the car (2 or more people) and no traffic jams . . . .

    Scholars have long known that fishing eventually turns men into philosophers.

    Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to buy decent tackle on a philosopher's salary. ~

    Patrick F. McManus






  2. #102
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    Default Re: Global warming? Oh no not again!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Jacobs View Post
    PPS: I am very sceptical when it comes to electric car mileage claims as it seems that the claimed figures are only from a straight run . . . . no stopping and starting, no long hill climbs or excessive loads in the car (2 or more people) and no traffic jams . . . .
    Tests carried out under normal driving conditions found that stated mileage like normal cars was not possible. So until I can get a car that carries 5 people plus luggage for upto 500 miles and can be recharged in 5 minutes I will stick to my diesel.
    Last edited by steve2; 05-01-2020 at 14:07.

  3. #103

    Default Re: Global warming? Oh no not again!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Jacobs View Post
    There is a huge difference between the anti-smoking campaigns and the measures that will be necessary to combat Climate Change will be so far reaching as to alter the way most people live their lives today.

    Everything from what you drive, how you heat your home, commute to and from work and even what you eat (and where it comes from) will need to alter, and in some cases drastically so.

    In order to have any real (and lasting) effect those changes will have to be more or less world wide, and to be totally candid I fail to see how that will ever come to pass.

    How countires like China, Brazil, India and the Indonesian terrirotries can be made to take some measures that will be deeply injurious to their economies and cultres is a complete mystery to conventional thinking.

    Then add in that in America you have a regime that is completley anti Clmate Change to the point where all references to it have been excluded from all future trade agreements with the USA.

    In the meantime we can struggle-on using our bags for life and segregating our garbage I suppose.

    PS: As for oil "running out" Iran have just published details of their latest discovery of approx., 55bl barrels. and that equates to 55bl times 79 US gallons per barrel, times 14% more when cracked at the refinery . . . .

    PPS: I am very sceptical when it comes to electric car mileage claims as it seems that the claimed figures are only from a straight run . . . . no stopping and starting, no long hill climbs or excessive loads in the car (2 or more people) and no traffic jams . . . .
    I honestly can't tell from this post whether you a) think there is no problem b) think there is such an insuperable problem that it is futile to even think it can be addressed.

    But I like your American "regime". Thankfully, they still favour regime change (in their own country) every few years

  4. #104
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    Default Re: Global warming? Oh no not again!!!

    To be perfectly open, of course I believe that there is a problem, and a rather large one.

    My intention in the earlier post was to try to open a window on the enormity of the real problem and the nature, and impact, of the changes that will be required to combat it; as well as to highlight the fact that the solution will have to be world wide . . . . .

    I know there are those who would criticise me for having spent my entire career in the oil and gas industry, for which I will make no apology whatosever, unless those criticising also apologise for every time they have heated their house, cooked a meal or filled their car . . . .

    I am truly not very confident that a world wide solution can, or will be found, as I said on a different thread earlier today . . . we live in an era of Smart 'phones and Stupid people . . . . where sound bites rule over substance . . . .

    Scholars have long known that fishing eventually turns men into philosophers.

    Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to buy decent tackle on a philosopher's salary. ~

    Patrick F. McManus






  5. #105
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    Default Re: Global warming? Oh no not again!!!

    Yes Peter there is a world of difference between smoking and climate change and the work to be done there. It is a good example (depressingly so) of how little was done against mounting evidence though and that was what Kev was getting at. We are singing from the same hymn sheet, albeit a rather gloomy one.
    By the time a man realizes his Father was right, he has a son who thinks he's wrong.

  6. #106

    Default Re: Global warming? Oh no not again!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Jacobs View Post
    To be perfectly open, of course I believe that there is a problem, and a rather large one.

    My intention in the earlier post was to try to open a window on the enormity of the real problem and the nature, and impact, of the changes that will be required to combat it; as well as to highlight the fact that the solution will have to be world wide . . . . .

    I know there are those who would criticise me for having spent my entire career in the oil and gas industry, for which I will make no apology whatosever, unless those criticising also apologise for every time they have heated their house, cooked a meal or filled their car . . . .

    I am truly not very confident that a world wide solution can, or will be found, as I said on a different thread earlier today . . . we live in an era of Smart 'phones and Stupid people . . . . where sound bites rule over substance . . . .
    Fair answer. Part of the enormity of the problem is that we are all embedded in a society that has been built around our use of energy, food production, transport etc etc, and can't just jump out of it. We are all involved in the problem, and everything we might do individually seems insignificant and recognising that makes us feel powerless and helpless.

    I take your point about responsibility being shared between say producers and users. But I'd add that, for me, it's not always equally shared. For instance, it's very hard to avoid filling a wheelie bin with discarded excessive packaging these days. I didn't ask for it, I don't want it, but it becomes my responsibility to look after it, sort it and pay again to have it taken away, sorted, disposed of or recycled. The little efforts an individual can make on their own look puny. We have to hope that public opinion and effective campaigns can lead to something that impacts on those who, politically and industrially, make the weather.

  7. #107
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    Default Re: Global warming? Oh no not again!!!

    I try to cut down on unnecessary packaging by shopping for veggies and fruit at the Charter Market in Salisbury. The traders there sell package-free and all it needs is a good old fashiond shopping bag and hey presto, little or no waste packaging.

    Growing up in the 50's my grandmother never went out without her string bag for her shopping . . . . and most items in the grocery shops were sold wrapped in paper, but of course that was labour intensive in the shops and before supermarkets.

    I spent decades working for American oil companies and experienced first hand how they operate . . . . . and how they indoctrinate their staff; at one company you got a memo telling you how to vote in forthcoming elections and which candidates are consdered best for the business.

    For a long time my bosses boss was Dick Cheyney (B&R) and I've seen Rex Tilotson (CEO E-M) in full swing in meetings . . . . both would leave you under no misunderstanding of exactly what they wanted . . . and got.

    On the t'other side I've seen first hand the vast amounts of money and resources spent in R & D for new and non-fossl fuel alternatives.

    Scholars have long known that fishing eventually turns men into philosophers.

    Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to buy decent tackle on a philosopher's salary. ~

    Patrick F. McManus






  8. #108
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    Default Re: Global warming? Oh no not again!!!

    I have not known peace and quiet or clean air for most of my life. I grew up right next to what was the main drag to Heathrow airport. I now live alongside a rat run. If electric cars are quiet and emission free then personally I welcome them.

  9. #109
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    Default Re: Global warming? Oh no not again!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by markg View Post
    I have not known peace and quiet or clean air for most of my life. I grew up right next to what was the main drag to Heathrow airport. I now live alongside a rat run. If electric cars are quiet and emission free then personally I welcome them.
    There are nearly 40 million cars and vans and lorries on UK roads and flights in and out of airports every few minutes how do we convince people to change to cleaner ways.
    I grew up with cleaner air but I am now surrounded by some of the UK worst roads pumping out pollution, planes overhead every few minutes but I can't be convinced to change.

  10. #110
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    Default Re: Global warming? Oh no not again!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by lambert1 View Post
    That is really interesting Chris as I had read somewhere that the only reason hydrogen cars are not being produced is because of the explosive nature of the gas and the problems that this would cause in collisions. If I am reading what you said correctly, that is baloney and we are being treated like mushrooms.
    The risk of explosion from carrying around cylinders of compressed hydrogen is one of the reasons, but there are other factors at play, some not too obvious to the casual observer. From a purely technical standpoint, the methods by which hydrogen has been produced in the past has been extremely cost prohibitive. Cold fusion is a prime example of pathological science in which it could never be reliably replicated in the lab - those two guys who claimed to have invented it got away with a fortune in research grants and through private investments.
    Most methods of producing our energy requires an enormous amount of input energy, usually in the form of electrical energy (derived from carbon fuels) offsetting any real cost benefit of clean energy - energy in>same energy out. Albeit sometimes in a different form.

    #Transportation of hydrogen is futile and risky.
    #Compressing hydrogen for easier transportation and storage is energy intensive and wasteful.
    #Hydrogen being the lightest of gasses can pass right through it's own container - up into the atmosphere and into space.

    Hydrogen is an energy carrier, it can be burned in the presence of oxygen or converted easily into other useful forms of energy such as electricity.

    A lower cost, hand held, high efficiency heat source (a now largely forgotten technology) capable of reaching temperatures over 6,000 °C (10,800 °F), has been around for about 100 years.... is capable of splitting water H2O>H1+H1+O (water splitting has a heat requirement of 3,000°C). The energy derived is realised via an electric arc when the two split hydrogen atoms violently recombine again to produce enough excess heat capable of melting tungsten 3,422 °C. Oxygen being a useful bi-product. This can be cooled to more manageable levels for domestic use if desired by varying the arc or with the addition of alcohol and water in small scale reactors.

    Overall I think the key to the success of an hydrogen economy (cheap/free energy) lies in our ability to produce it in situ - right at the point of use. I'm sure this is the future!

    Whoops, but all those heat emissions....???

    Quote Originally Posted by peterjg View Post
    Laguna, your last post was very interesting. I seem to recall that there was a report about a hydrogen powered high altitude aircraft being invented? This would have been about 30 years ago? Conspiracy sceptics thought that the invention was bought by the oil companies?
    I remember hearing something about a new aircraft jet utilising atmospheric oxygen Peter. A quick search throws up this... It seems we're not too far away after all... The Synergistic Air-Breathing Rocket Engine (SABRE), which is being developed by the U.K. company Reaction Engines, can switch between two modes. In aircraft-engine mode, it uses oxygen from the atmosphere, and in rocket-engine mode, it burns an oxidizer carried onboard together with the fuel liquid hydrogen.

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