River rights

103841

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The piece of river for sale as linked to in the bargains thread has jogged my memory.

This could be one for Mike. I had a recent conversation with my local club the CDAA.

I’ve always been under the impression that any river (not the banks), so fishing from a boat for example, is free to all unless the banks either side have a land owner that has “riparian rights”

This was my thought for the Stour running through my area, where I know anglers on boats are not members. But the club states they have the “ rights” to the actual water, they pay a rent to someone for the use of the banks. I did ask if that’s the case why don’t they ban the intensely annoying canoeists and also prosecute anyone removing a fish from that bit of river, they never replied to those questions.

What’s the reality?
 

Aknib

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I'm no expert but I was always under the impression that if a club rents the fishing rights from the riparian owner then that would include any permissible boat fishing and that anyone fishing from a boat in such circumstances without permission would in effect be stealing the fishing rights.

The canoe thing is a whole different can of worms and after all has been argued to exhaustion it basically, in my eyes, boils down to militant paddlers knowing that they are guilty of civil trespass whilst also knowing that there is little anyone can really do about it.

The Angling Trust have had a go and they hoist a successful test case but it's a drop in the ocean compared to amount of daily occurrences of the problem.

It simply can't be effectively policed on a basis where the perpetrators can be identified and held to account on an effective basis and the paddlers know this.

It crosses a line where abuse and/or threats are involved in that it then becomes a criminal matter but the same complexities, and more, hold any effective action back.
 

Neil Maidment

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Not so!

But this can of worms has had plenty of exposure. Here's the Angling Trust's take on the matter having sought QC's Opinion in answer to the Canoe Union's stance on the matter. The CU seem to have gone very quiet, at least officially, since that Opinion was published.

Loads more stuff from all sides prior to that Opinion if you fancy a month or two searching the internet.

QC's legal advice proves there is no general public right to navigate non-tidal rivers in England and Wales - The Angling Trust
 

mikench

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As with most aspects of law*«*it depends*»

Basically the position is as follows;

The owner of land abutting a natural watercourse, be it a river, stream or ditch (a riparian owner), has the benefit of a number of additional rights which have been established over time at common law. Such rights may not appear on the Land Registry title to the land and will automatically pass on a conveyance of the land in question meaning that future owners will take the benefit of them without any need for express assignment of the right. In addition to obtaining the benefit of these riparian rights, a riparian owner also assumes certain responsibilities; including an obligation not to interfere with the riparian rights of other upstream and downstream land owners, who will have a right of action should their rights be interfered with. This article will therefore consider the nature of riparian rights and how these should be taken into account in relation to leases of such land.

What are riparian rights? And what responsibilities do riparian owners have?
Case law has confirmed that riparian owners not only have the right to use the water within a river or other watercourse for ordinary purposes, which include domestic use and use for livestock, but also the right to use that water for less usual purposes. The right to use water for ordinary purposes applies without the land owner having to take into account the effect of that use on other riparian owners; [1] however, use of the water for less ordinary purposes can only occur to the extent that the rights of other owners are not interfered with. As such, a watercourse may, for example, be dammed or diverted by a riparian owner so long the regular flow of the water is not interrupted and the lawful use of the water by other owners disrupted.

A riparian owner has a right to have a stream “flow in its natural state without diminution or alteration” [2]. As a consequence a riparian owner has the right to receive a natural flow of water in its usual quantity and quality. As a result of this right, water should not be taken out of the watercourse if it would lead to a shortage of water for those who need it downstream. Should a riparian owner’s right to the natural flow of the water be disrupted causing actual damage, the riparian owner is entitled to the intervention of the courts [3]. Furthermore, whilst the rights of riparian owners extend to an ability to build on the bed of the river provided that the flow of the water is not altered, a riparian owner should not undertake any activity on its land which could pollute the water and lead to a reduction in the water quality within the watercourse.

In terms of responsibilities, in addition to the obligation to let water flow through land without any obstruction, diversion or pollution which would impact on the rights of other owners, riparian owners must also accept flooding on their land even if this is caused by inadequate downstream capacity. A landowner is under no obligation to improve drainage capacity in a watercourse that he or she owns. Banks must be kept free of anything that could obstruct the watercourse or lead to an increased flood risk and local byelaws, which can impact on what activities can be carried out within a certain distance of a watercourse, must be taken into consideration when planning any development within the vicinity of a river.

Whilst detailed consideration of flood risk is beyond the scope of this article, riparian owners do have a responsibility to manage flood risk, and risk management agencies, which include the Environment Agency and local authorities, can designate certain features and structures on land abutting a watercourse as flood risk management assets. Such designation prevents those features and structures being altered, replaced or removed without consent. The consent of such risk management agencies may also be required for development of land abutting a watercourse and such agencies will take into consideration various environmental factors, which include flood risk, wildlife conservation and effects on the river and landscape when determining whether to grant consent.

It ought to be borne in mind though that the permission of third parties may be required to undertake other activities in relation to a watercourse. For example, to abstract water from a river, the consent of the Environment Agency may be required who, when determining whether to grant consent, will consider the effect on the environment of the proposal to abstract, the protection of existing abstraction rights and that water resources are managed in the best interests of the environment.

A number of presumptions also exist relating to watercourses, which include a general rebuttable presumption similar to that which exist for roads, that the owner of land abutting a river is entitled to the soil of the bed of the river so far as the mid point. It should be noted though that this presumption does not apply to tidal rivers the beds of which are owned by the Crown. Furthermore, subject to the expression of a contrary intention, a conveyance of land abutting a river is presumed to include half of the river bed even if it is not expressly referred to as part of the demised property, as long as the conveyance is made by a person who himself is so entitled [4].

Points to consider in a lease of land abutting a watercourse
When granting a lease of a land abutting a watercourse, a landlord should ensure that the tenant’s indemnity in the lease is extended to cover damage caused by the tenant to the watercourse which results in a claim from a neighbouring owner for interference with their rights. A landlord should also consider if rights have been granted to any third parties, for example in the form of fishing licences, which could require the use of the water by the tenant to be limited to prevent disruption of water flow of interference with fish stock.

A tenant, when taking a lease of land next to a river, will need to consider whether they require the lease to grant to them rights equivalent to those which their landlord enjoys by virtue of common law, to the extent that such rights do not automatically extend to them. Riparian owners have rights of access to and egress from the water and such rights also benefit tenants of the land unless they have been expressly excluded in their lease

Finally, a well advised tenant should also ensure that they have the ability to require a landlord to enforce their rights against neighbouring owners in the event of interference or, in the alternative consent from the landlord for the tenant to enforce directly.

It isn’t straightforward and I rarely had occasion to look into the matter. One of my clubs h1s now given up their leased rights to an overgrown polluted stream devoid of fish. The respective rights of landowners and anglers has to be determined on their facts.

_____________________
 

Aknib

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Not so!

But this can of worms has had plenty of exposure. Here's the Angling Trust's take on the matter having sought QC's Opinion in answer to the Canoe Union's stance on the matter. The CU seem to have gone very quiet, at least officially, since that Opinion was published.

Loads more stuff from all sides prior to that Opinion if you fancy a month or two searching the internet.

QC's legal advice proves there is no general public right to navigate non-tidal rivers in England and Wales - The Angling Trust

That's just the thing though Neil, I was aware of the QC's advice as I was in contact with Mark Lloyd whilst I awaited its publication and though it appears to come down on the side of Anglers it still represents a major issue in effectively bringing militant paddlers to account.

My overall opinion of that exercise was that it pretty much confirmed what we already suspected albeit it was probably an expensive way of confirming it?

I think that advice was published a few years ago now, have there been any breakthroughs as a result of it or any successful paddler prosecutions due to it?

I was a member of the Angling Trust and it was the paddler issue which resulted in that membership lapsing as they just appeared to be, despite their best intentions, a fairly lame duck on the matter.
 
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rich66

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Thanks Mikench
I think I’ve learnt more in the few minutes reading your post than I have from the EA or the local council in 30 years.
When we bought our house we knew there was a brook to one-side but no one ever said it came with the property! So we have become reluctant owners of half a brook, the other half belongs to next door. Fortunately it doesn’t or hasn’t cost us any money so far. I have to give access to the EA or their contractors but as they tend to keep it clear above stream and our “bit” I’m happy to allow them access.
 

103841

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The stretch of river I was referring to is tidal, I guess reading the link in Neil's post, this is a whole different ball game?

“ There is no general Public Right of Navigation (PRN) on English and Welsh non-tidal rivers for canoeists.”
 

Mark Wintle

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There is a general right of navigation on tidal waters. Also generally on tidal waters the landowners may grant bank access rights to angling clubs but it is free to fish from a boat EXCEPT in cases where the tidal water is a private fishery which is quite rare but does apply to the tidal Dorset Frome, Piddle, Dorset Stour and Hants Avon where the right were severed by the king hence 'Royalty' or 'Several' fisheries. On the Frome the EA acquired the rights through their predessessors the Avon and Dorset River Board who'd bought them from the Lord of the Manor and the rights went from the ancient weir at Wareham to the sea but the river is now tidal above this point and although bank access is not possible above where the weir once was it is OK to fish from a boat up to the tidal limit. Conversely although you can access the tidal Stour and Avon (lower part of the Royalty) at Christchurch that doesn't confer a right to fish unless you have the appropriate permits.
 

103841

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Going off topic for a moment, just watched your video Mark on that other forum, post it on here, very enjoyable and informative.
 

108831

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Thanks Mikench
I think I’ve learnt more in the few minutes reading your post than I have from the EA or the local council in 30 years.
When we bought our house we knew there was a brook to one-side but no one ever said it came with the property! So we have become reluctant owners of half a brook, the other half belongs to next door. Fortunately it doesn’t or hasn’t cost us any money so far. I have to give access to the EA or their contractors but as they tend to keep it clear above stream and our “bit” I’m happy to allow them access.

Keep your bankside vegetation under control,any intrusion that affects the movement of floodwater and they will charge you the earth to clear it...after they have done it,no permission required,on the river Ivel i know a guy who owns the house next to Pat Walker(****'s wife),they own to mid-river,trespassing is possible/probable for those that wade,also all of these houses have had flood protection work done by the owners to prevent erosion involving many tons of stones and wire caging to hold them in place,it is very costly,the fella told me as he did his own(under advice).
 

no-one in particular

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I do not know if this relevant or not, I paddled down the Kent Stour once from Wye to just before Canturbury, lots of big private fishing signs on what looked like quite big estates which was no surprise but I came across a few places where they had chains across the river which I guess must have been to stop people like me paddling through, is this allowed? And if so, why cant some clubs do the same if they want to stop canoes, if it is allowed on the Stour, why not other rivers?
 
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Mark Wintle

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Going off topic for a moment, just watched your video Mark on that other forum, post it on here, very enjoyable and informative.

Glad you enjoyed it; I relocated my cameraman last night, we retired at the same time and he did a lot of photography with me but he had to go back to work for a few year and the good news is that he has retired again and up for some video work. Video on a new thread.
 

sam vimes

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if it is allowed on the Stour, why not other rivers?

I have no idea whether it's allowed or not. However, it might be a laugh on my local. Trying to secure the chain would be the initial challenge. Having it still be secure after the first flood would be the second. In the unlikely event of the chain seeing out the first flood, picking out the entangled trees and dead sheep would be the final challenge.
 

no-one in particular

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I have no idea whether it's allowed or not. However, it might be a laugh on my local. Trying to secure the chain would be the initial challenge. Having it still be secure after the first flood would be the second. In the unlikely event of the chain seeing out the first flood, picking out the entangled trees and dead sheep would be the final challenge.

Ha, I am sure your right but they were the sort of places where the servants would clear the dead sheep and branches. I cannot remember how the chains were fixed but I do remember they were quite substantial sometimes with a no fishing or a no trespassing sign hanging off them. I certainly got the message.
 

rich66

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Keep your bankside vegetation under control,any intrusion that affects the movement of floodwater and they will charge you the earth to clear it...after they have done it,no permission required,on the river Ivel i know a guy who owns the house next to Pat Walker(****'s wife),they own to mid-river,trespassing is possible/probable for those that wade,also all of these houses have had flood protection work done by the owners to prevent erosion involving many tons of stones and wire caging to hold them in place,it is very costly,the fella told me as he did his own(under advice).

Cheers Whitty

I know I’ve got to get down there this year and repoint the brick work. There’s brick built sides that drop 7 foot or so before water level. Strangely the wall to my neighbours side is only 6 foot high
 
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