C
Cakey
Guest
Graham you have it in a nutshell ,I think selling AT to the "pro" anglers is easily soldbut the what I call "solar powered" angler is not going to be interested
A challenge to anyone......
- Thread starter Gorgeous Bob Bradford
- Start date
A
Andy "the Dog" Nellist (SAA) (ACA)
Guest
I have strong views on a whole host of angling issues many of which do not concur with the current Angling Trust positions.
HoweverI know that angling urgently needs a single body to represent it and as an angler it is extremely important for me and as many other anglers as possible tobe members so that angling has a powerfull voice.
No one has to change their views to join. Membership is not being vetted. Join and moving forwards seek change fromwithin so that angling as a whole can enjoy the benefits of having a single body to stand up for us all.
It takes a big man to swallow his pride and do something that he doesn't want to do because he knows it will benefit his sport as a whole.
HoweverI know that angling urgently needs a single body to represent it and as an angler it is extremely important for me and as many other anglers as possible tobe members so that angling has a powerfull voice.
No one has to change their views to join. Membership is not being vetted. Join and moving forwards seek change fromwithin so that angling as a whole can enjoy the benefits of having a single body to stand up for us all.
It takes a big man to swallow his pride and do something that he doesn't want to do because he knows it will benefit his sport as a whole.
Oh dear!
Bob,
First and foremost, I have no wish to see you, or anyone else for that matter leave FM.
Now, the reason that I placed you on my Ignore list is that, to my mind, your contributions to the Unity Threads were becoming time-consumingly repetetive and wholly predictable in their content, coupled to the fact that I doubt that we could ever agree on this subject.
At no time did I accuse you of sending any of the less-than-complimentary PM's or E-Mails, neither did I 'imply' that you had. However, I cannot apologise for your reading of the matter.
The reason that I declined your suggestion to name and shame is that I consider that the "P" in a "PM" stands for <u>Private.</u> If the originator(s) had intended their comments for public consumption then I am sure that they would have made them on the thread itself.
I hope this clarifies the problem but believe me I will not be responding to any further correspondence on this topic.
That said, I will repeat; I have no wish to see you, or anyone else for that matter leave FM.
It is a little sad that we had two threads running at the same time, otherwise a lot more people might have read Mike Heylin's reply posted yesterday at 13:10 from which I quote the main points. with added emphasis from myself:
"Guys, at the end of the day each of you will decide whether to support Angling Trust or not. <u>Just what is the point of being at each other?s throats over the issue?</u> If the five organisations had started from there it would never have happened.
I have always taken the view that unity at a national level would be much easier to achieve than unity at a local level, where we need game fishers, coarse anglers and sea anglers all working together to deliver better fisheries and more fish. The sooner anglers realise that they all share a common goal and that what joins them is greater than what separates them, the sooner this great sport will start to make real progress in the modern world.
The groups behind Angling Trust realised some time ago that we are stronger together than apart. <u>You chose whether to join or not</u>."
Bob,
First and foremost, I have no wish to see you, or anyone else for that matter leave FM.
Now, the reason that I placed you on my Ignore list is that, to my mind, your contributions to the Unity Threads were becoming time-consumingly repetetive and wholly predictable in their content, coupled to the fact that I doubt that we could ever agree on this subject.
At no time did I accuse you of sending any of the less-than-complimentary PM's or E-Mails, neither did I 'imply' that you had. However, I cannot apologise for your reading of the matter.
The reason that I declined your suggestion to name and shame is that I consider that the "P" in a "PM" stands for <u>Private.</u> If the originator(s) had intended their comments for public consumption then I am sure that they would have made them on the thread itself.
I hope this clarifies the problem but believe me I will not be responding to any further correspondence on this topic.
That said, I will repeat; I have no wish to see you, or anyone else for that matter leave FM.
It is a little sad that we had two threads running at the same time, otherwise a lot more people might have read Mike Heylin's reply posted yesterday at 13:10 from which I quote the main points. with added emphasis from myself:
"Guys, at the end of the day each of you will decide whether to support Angling Trust or not. <u>Just what is the point of being at each other?s throats over the issue?</u> If the five organisations had started from there it would never have happened.
I have always taken the view that unity at a national level would be much easier to achieve than unity at a local level, where we need game fishers, coarse anglers and sea anglers all working together to deliver better fisheries and more fish. The sooner anglers realise that they all share a common goal and that what joins them is greater than what separates them, the sooner this great sport will start to make real progress in the modern world.
The groups behind Angling Trust realised some time ago that we are stronger together than apart. <u>You chose whether to join or not</u>."
N
Nigel Connor(ACA ,SAA)
Guest
..and for heaven's sake can we leave it at that!!!
Windy
Well-known member
Bob: I think Trev and Graham are right, its time to put your head down back behind the parapet when posts about who is blocking whom, what is in private messages and the personal motivations of the persons having a public row take over an otherwise reasonably started thread.
And although you greet me as a supposed AT supporter the reality is that I am a neutral. That good old British scepticism at work.
Go back and do a search engine bit 12 - 18 months ago and you will find a number of pessimistic and scathingly disbelieving posts by me doubting the remotest possibility of AT ever getting off the ground. Never a chance the old organisations would dissolve I said, they will hang around like old interfering maiden aunts, forever meddling. Never a chance that the entrenched 'committee-istas', the sad buggers who prefer sitting round tables exercising committee power over the dwindling last three members and the club cat will give up their powers, never a chance that such an organisation would go for one man vote instead of getting the fix in for the power blocs, never a chance that they will resist the siren call of tacking compulsory membership on to the rod licence fees....
Well there we are. I was wrong, dead wrong. And I am glad that I was.
So far AT have done nothing more for me than make promises and give assurances, so I remain as I say, neutral.
If there's one thing I learned in spades as a lawyer it isn't what people say that matters, its what people do. So I'm going to watch and wait and judge AT on the doing in due course - and due course is a good two or three years away I reckon before any reasonable judgment can be made one way or another.
And even if its a failure, a false dawn, its only Twenty quid for God's sake. You're whinging about it as if you were being forced to give up your virgin daughters for sacrifice when it's a sum so pathetic in the context of what we could and might gain if the doing turns out to be done....
Come on Cakey, - if you'd ordered each one of your hand made rods an inch shorter in the butt then the saving in Carbon and precious metals cost alone would have given you the £20 and as much again in change ! You're not seriously whinging about that are you ? And I thought I was mean.
If as much as one person is put off joining by the deterioration of this unedifying and silly thread into personalities then it has done a great dis-service to angling contrary to the wishes, intent and ethos of this site.
And although you greet me as a supposed AT supporter the reality is that I am a neutral. That good old British scepticism at work.
Go back and do a search engine bit 12 - 18 months ago and you will find a number of pessimistic and scathingly disbelieving posts by me doubting the remotest possibility of AT ever getting off the ground. Never a chance the old organisations would dissolve I said, they will hang around like old interfering maiden aunts, forever meddling. Never a chance that the entrenched 'committee-istas', the sad buggers who prefer sitting round tables exercising committee power over the dwindling last three members and the club cat will give up their powers, never a chance that such an organisation would go for one man vote instead of getting the fix in for the power blocs, never a chance that they will resist the siren call of tacking compulsory membership on to the rod licence fees....
Well there we are. I was wrong, dead wrong. And I am glad that I was.
So far AT have done nothing more for me than make promises and give assurances, so I remain as I say, neutral.
If there's one thing I learned in spades as a lawyer it isn't what people say that matters, its what people do. So I'm going to watch and wait and judge AT on the doing in due course - and due course is a good two or three years away I reckon before any reasonable judgment can be made one way or another.
And even if its a failure, a false dawn, its only Twenty quid for God's sake. You're whinging about it as if you were being forced to give up your virgin daughters for sacrifice when it's a sum so pathetic in the context of what we could and might gain if the doing turns out to be done....
Come on Cakey, - if you'd ordered each one of your hand made rods an inch shorter in the butt then the saving in Carbon and precious metals cost alone would have given you the £20 and as much again in change ! You're not seriously whinging about that are you ? And I thought I was mean.
If as much as one person is put off joining by the deterioration of this unedifying and silly thread into personalities then it has done a great dis-service to angling contrary to the wishes, intent and ethos of this site.
Windy
Well-known member
<blockquote class=quoteheader>Nigel Connor(ACA ,SAA) wrote (see)</blockquote><blockquote class=quote>..and for heaven's sake can we leave it at that!!!</blockquote>
What /\ he said.
What /\ he said.
GrahamM
Managing Editor
- Joined
- Feb 23, 1999
- Messages
- 9,773
- Reaction score
- 1
I've had emails pleading with me to delete the thread and an equal number asking me to leave it on. So I'll compromise by locking it to further comment.
It is sad that some people can only debate by including personally offensive comments. But those who are on the receiving end of such comments can take consolation in the fact that the offender has ran out of sensible things to say and is more concerned with scoring points than making a valuable contribution to an important debate.
As far as the AT is concerned I don't think this thread will do them any harm at all. All those with no axe to grind and no chip on their shoulder will be able to see through the nonsense and make a reasoned decision - and that includes those who do and those who don't decide to join.
Time will tell if the AT is a worthwhile and worthy organisation. My decision to join is based mainly on the fact that I want to give them the best possible chance to succeed.
It is sad that some people can only debate by including personally offensive comments. But those who are on the receiving end of such comments can take consolation in the fact that the offender has ran out of sensible things to say and is more concerned with scoring points than making a valuable contribution to an important debate.
As far as the AT is concerned I don't think this thread will do them any harm at all. All those with no axe to grind and no chip on their shoulder will be able to see through the nonsense and make a reasoned decision - and that includes those who do and those who don't decide to join.
Time will tell if the AT is a worthwhile and worthy organisation. My decision to join is based mainly on the fact that I want to give them the best possible chance to succeed.