Now for something serious

[Ron Clay]

Chlorine has been used for drinking and waste water disinfection for many years. Just lately there has been an increase world wide of the use of chloramines (a chlorine/ammonia compound) in drinking and waste water treatment. Chloramines are more stable and do not lead to the formation of Tri Halo Methanes - a known carcinagen.

However chloramines kill fish!!

Is there anyone on this website who can shed more light on this subject?

 

[Ron Clay]

Also, do a google search under chloramines and fish and read some of the facts.

 

[David Will]

Ron a study I have read from the Imperial College is of the opinion that Tri Halo Methanes are formed when chloramines come into contact with body cells (skin cells) and certain beauty products as used by women in particular. Body lotion is one.The advice from the scientist with an unpronouncable name is showering before entering a swimming pool. In addition there is a study underway to ascertain the possible risks of exposure to swimming pool staff.This is being conducted by the HSE.
It would appear that a 'green' alternative is available and that is Ultra Violet water treatment which totally negates the need for any chlorine type disinfectant.Perhaps this is one avenue that the SAA would or should be exploring for all our sakes not only anglers but anyone who has an asthmatic member of their family.

 

[Ron Clay]

I have been doing a great deal of study regarding the effect of chlorine/chloramine treament of water. You are right David, THMs are formed when chlorine reacts with organic materials. THMs have been proved to be carcinogenic. However the water authorities may be trying to cure a fault with another fault.

Chloramination is dangerous for patients on dialysis. If chloramines come into contact with a patients blood, by diffusion through the dialysis membrane, the patient at the best will suffer severe anaemia and at the worst, he or she will die.

I am at the moment attempting to devise a really effective activated carbon filter for the removal of chloramines.

Fish breeders are particularly worried about the presence of chloramines.

The problem with UV is that it does not give a complete kill of bacteria due to the "shadowing effect" And not only that but dead bacteria are left which can form potent endotoxins in the water. Not an easy solution.

 

[Kevan Farmer]

Nasty stuff Ron. I'm sick to death of all the chemicals that keep getting added to our water. To improve our health, say the Water Authorities. Rubbish!!! I wish we could just have pure water that contains nothing but the combined effects of an oxygen/hydrogen reaction with no smell to it. Is it too much to ask?

Kevan

 

[Craig Smith]

Kevan,
I agree the authorities should concentrate on getting chemicals out and making it pure not putting them in!

 

[Cakey]

Does this affect our beer????

 

[Ron Clay]

Kevan, if you drank pure H2O, which does not exist in nature by the way, it would kill you!

It is the impurities in water which make it safe. Some are good impurities such as natural occuring minerals. Others are bad.

 

[Kevan Farmer]

Hmmm, that's interesting Ron. I'm not sure I agree with you on this one. Why would pure H2O harm me? Water in it's pure form is actually quite inert. It should be neither good nor bad. I know that too much 'water' in the human body can kill but that is an excess.

I am intrigued.

Kevan

ps. Ron, I enjoyed your piece in the latest Angling Star. Spot on mate. It's the first time I've ever seen the publication but I shall no doubt buy it again.

 

[Ron Clay]

Pure water, ie H2O is something that nature abhors, like a vacuum for example.

The nearest that man has achieved to H2O is the water used in Micro-electronics plant for washing the wafers. That water goes through several stages of de-ionisation, reverse osmosis filtration, pariculate filtration and carbon to take out as much of the impurities as possible.

By measuring the resistivity to electrical conductivity we can determine how pure the water is. This is generally measure in megohms per centimetre. High purity electronics grade water is 18 megohms (18 million ohms per centimeter). Pure water does not conduct electricity and in this state it is very unstable as the water is trying to grab ions from where ever possible.

Drink water like this and there is a good chance it will damage the inside of your body as it grabs whatever it can to get back into a stable state. Nasty stuff!!

 

[David Bruce]

Whilst not attacking or defending chloramination it is worthwhile looking at why it is being introduced:
One of the problems with our drinking water distribution system is that it is very old.
There are many dead legs in the pipework which donot go anywhere now and are blanked off. These stagnant sections are breeding grounds for bacteria. Ordinary chlorination is not sufficiently persistant enough throughout the system to keep this in check. Chloramination is more persistent in the system and can keep this problem under control and keep our drinking water free from harmful bacteria.
UV is only effective at the point of application and immediatly downstream it has no persistant effects throughout a distribution system.

 

[Ron Clay]

Very true David. You are obviously connected to the water treatment industry.

London has up to 0.4 mg/l chloramines in it's water. I've measured 'em.