Co-polymer and fluorocarbon

[Richard Drayson]

I've noticed that both co-polymer and fluorocarbon lines are being sold as a hooklength material (particularly in the game fishing mags).

Does anyone know what the merits are of co-polymer hooklengths? I know that fluorocarbon is great for clear water as it has a refractive index very close to that of water.

 

[chub angler]

copoly mono lines have more stretch.

 

[Phillips Jerry]

A co polymer line is a hi tech mono line like DRenman double strenth a lot of the match boys use co polymer line as pole line as its thinner than convential mono .Fluocarbon is normally a lot stiffer than mono,thats why it used by fly fishermen, it,s ability to turn big flys over when casting.Fluocarbon is practicaly invisible,not very abrassion resistance, you also have to be careful when knotting it a blood knot works best,only buy one,s that are recomended.It has some use,s when legering ,it,s stiffness will stop you from getting so many tangles also be haveir than mono it sit on the bottom better, never found it any good for sur face fishing. Hope this helps

 

[Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA)]

Copolymer means that two seperate plastics are polymerised together to make one extrudable material. Often one of those plastics is nylon (Polyamide)

Copolymer monofilaments are thin for their strength and have little stretch.

There seems to be a lack of undertanding as the what the word "mono" means. It is a shortform for monofilament, or "single filament". Copolymer, nylon and fluorocarbon are all extruded into monofilaments or "monos".

"Fluorocarbon, is a generic name for a variety of fluoropolymers, the two most common being PTFE and PVDF.

PTFE, often given the trade name "Teflon", is Polytetrafluoroethylene. PVDF is Polyvinylidene fluoride. The material used for fluorocarbon fishing lines is PVDF which has a number of unique properties. First of all it has a refraction index close to water which means that it is less visible in water. Secondly, PVDF is much denser than either Copolymer or nylon meaning that it sinks a lot quicker. Thirdly, the knots needed are different. As Mullet man says, the best knot for tying on a hook is a bog standard halfblood knot with only 4 turns.

Fluorocarbon is a product that has acquired a bad name due to a large number of poorly specifiedversions of the product.

 

[Day Breamer]

I like fluorocarbon because of it being more stiff, or less likely to coil than mono, this gives me alot more confidence that my hookbait is better presented and not all curled up in a heap next to the feeder, i also think that with the knotless knot and hair rig the bait is not so likely to get rejected due to it being stiffer (dunno if thats just me or not) i use Korda widegape hooks, very sharp, very strong.

I used the word 'confidence' and i think thats the most important word.

Some people just usefluoro for its less visible properties, i think flouro has alot more going for it than that.

 

[Richard Drayson]

WOW, thanks Mullet Man and Ron for those answers.

Ron, I know you like to spend some of your time fly fishing for trout. What would you recommend I use for trout fishing with a floating line with imitative patterns in very clear water with a de-greased leader? I simply love stalking trout with various buzzer, nymph and bug patterns.

I have recently re-kindled my interest in fly fishing after a lay-off of almost 20 years and so I'm a little rusty when it comes to this type of thing. I hope to spend some of this year visiting some of the waters I used to fish. Avington, Dever Springs, Rockbourne were favourites. Closer to my home now is Chalk Springs at Arundel which I hope to try soon.

Thanks Day Breamer, I must have been typing my reply when you posted yours.

 

[Wolfman Woody]

Krystonite is a fluorocarbon coated copolymer - best of both worlds.

"copolymer is a polymer derived from two (or more) monomeric species, as opposed to a homopolymer where only one monomer is used." (that from Wikipedia)

What does it all mean?

Who gives a toss?

Krystonite is good stuff.

 

[Richard Drayson]

"Krystonite is good stuff." It probably is Woodybut would it be suitable to fly fishing for trout in very clear water? I also wonder if krystonite has the same refractive index as flouro?

 

[Phillips Jerry]

Day Breamer I,m with you one this one,you just can,tbeat a stiff hooklink when legering I just seem to get so more self hookers when using fluorocarbon.

 

[Sean Meeghan]

Richard, if you're fishing dry fly I'd go for a a good qaulity clearcoplymer or normal nylonline. The problem with fluoro is that it tends to sink dry flies. Many copolymer lines tend to sink as well due to their higher density so you may need to experiment a bit. Ask in the tackle shop for a good floating line or search on here as we've had discussions like this before.

Krystonite has the same refractive index as other coplymer lines, but to be honest once a line has some scratches in it or a bit of dirt, the refractive index isn't really significant.

 

[Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA)]

Richard, for fishing in very clear water with a sunken fly I would recommend that you try say 3 or 4 lb fluorocarbon with a weight 4 or 5 line to a light 8 1/2 or 9 foot rod. Such a light outfit will cushion the pulls from quite big trout.You don't need to soap up flourocarbon as it sinks quite readily.

For dry fly fishing with large bouyant flies such as those tied with deer hair, use the same fluorocarbon.

For dry fly fishing with small flies, a nylon leader is best as Sean says. That is why I like to carry a spool of Drennan Sub-Surface Green around with me for this purpose.

 

[Alan Tyler]

"Krystonite has the same refractive index as other coplymer lines, but to be honest once a line has some scratches in it or a bit of dirt, the refractive index isn't really significant."

Dirt, yes; scratches, no-ifthe the refractive index is the same as that of water.

I used to have to do a bit of histology, and once spent ages with an electric engraver, serially numbering slides bearing sections of a bit of a beast for a practical class. When the slides were in aqueous reagents or going "up the alcohols", the edges of the slides and the engraved marks on them were clearly visible, but once they were in xylene, which has exactly the same refracive index as microscope slide glass, the slides, their edges, and the engraved marks all vanished - all that was visible were the staned sections, suspended as if by magic.

If they ever manage to make a line that truly is index-matched to water, you'll be able to wipe it clean without worrying about its surface texture.

 

[Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA)]

it is important to understand what the term "Refractive Index" means.

It refers to how much the speed of light is reduced when compared to the speed of light in a vacuum.

RI is equal to c divided by Vp

Where c = the speed of light, Vp = speed of light in the material in question, and RI = Refractive Index.

When light travels through two mediums which are arranged next to each other the light will be bent. This will cause the material with a different RI to become visible. If the two materials have the same RI it will mean in theory and provided the materials are free of dirt, that they will be invisible.

 

[Richard Drayson]

OK so it's flourocarbon for sub surface fishing with bugs, nymphs and buzzers and large dry flies on the surface. Small dry flies use co-polymer or normal mono.

Thanks chaps.

 

[Wolfman Woody]

<blockquote class=quoteheader>Richard Drayson wrote (see)</blockquote><blockquote class=quote>

"Krystonite is good stuff." It probably is Woodybut would it be suitable to fly fishing for trout in very clear water? I also wonder if krystonite has the same refractive index as flouro?</blockquote>
<blockquote class=quoteheader>Richard Drayson wrote (see)</blockquote><blockquote class=quote>

OK so it's flourocarbon for sub surface fishing with bugs, nymphs and buzzers and large dry flies on the surface. Small dry flies use co-polymer or normal mono.

Thanks chaps.</blockquote>

Well, if you want to avoid copolymer lines, try the new Kryston Incognito, it works a treat for fly or ledgering/float fishing. Quite supple for a fluoro as well.

Want to try some?

I have 9lbs and 7lbs I can send samples of. Message me.

 

[Richard Drayson]

Thanks for your kind offer Woody. PM on its way.

 

[Richard Drayson]

Thanks again Woody. Received the sample of line. Will try it soon /forum/smilies/smile_smiley.gif