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  1. #91
    Wolfman Woody Guest

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    <blockquote class=quoteheader>Son of Meldrew wrote (see)
    </blockquote><blockquote class=quote>

    Angling is now the only field sport - or 'blood' sport as some would have it - anyway, a sport that involves the pursuit of wild creatures - that does not have a proper closedseason to let breeding take place. I know the old system wasn't perfect, but it gave most of the fish a chance most of the time.How can we justify this to the public, never mind the anti's? </blockquote>

    Unlike all the other &quot;blood sports&quot; that kill their quarry, coarse anglers don't (yes, even me, despite what some might say I don't kill any fish).

    The reason should be obvious, but in the case of birds, it is to allow for a successful breeding that will provide the shoot for next season. Even so, there are now farm where the birds can be raised and released at the appropriate time. And believe it or not nearly a third of birds are run over bybehicles and over a third escape to other farmland, around here at least.

    On your second point, I can assure you, hand on heart because I have done my own surveys, that the general public for the most part don't give a damn what we do and no matter what you do, you will never please an anti other than by committing suicide.

    Cakey, same on the Colne. In one part, you can fish from one bank where CS angling is allowed and cast your bait to fish the river where angling is forbidden.

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  2. #92
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    Peterborough
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    Some people seem to be losing their perspective. The closed season wasn't put in place to protect spawning fish, it just became the reason it was kept. It was originally put in place to keep the plebs off the river while the upper classes fished for salmon....

    As for AT and other commercial interests wanting to get rid of the closed to make more money... how exactly? No one's fishing the bloody rivers... they're all empty for most of the year apartfrom a few places like Collingham and Throop. Yes, we hung a closed season story on a trade angle... but that was what tackle shopswere calling for and it gave us an 'in'. But the most significant newsrevolves aroundthe changes that will be allowed once (and if) the Marine Bill is passed.

    Stop for a minute and consider these two factors. The greatest threat to fish welfare issub-standard anglers and ignorant fishery owners, with regards poor fish handling and poor fishery management respectively. Fishing all year round is far less of a fish welfare concern than these two issues. And the only way you solve these problems is if a single governing body governs the sport. Yet some insist such governance is unneccessary and insist they personallydon't want governing... but they're probably not bouncing fish around on the bank like basket balls... I witness it most weeks. It happens a lot. Fact!

    The second consideration is that catching fish that are hydrating (fish carry spawn most of the year and only start to swell up by taking on water as the temperatures increase) isn't an issue. Fish are in their very best condition in the run up to spawning. Conversely, fish that have just spawned are a mess... chub on my local river typically look like they've been put through a mangle. The point is,anglers who slate others for fishing for 'spawny' tench in May obviously haven't thought things through. Catching a tench a week before it spawns is less likely to adversely affect it than catching it a week after spawning when its at its lowest weight, lowest fitness and most vulnerable to disease and predation. Why does KHv kill so many carp in spring? Because they've just spawned. The same can be said of virtually every fish species.

    Ipso facto, it makes more sense to stop anglers fishing for spawned out fish than spawn-filled fish. I don't want to catch a barbel in July when it looksd like cr*p and takes me ages to nurse back to full fitness in low oxygenated water. I would like to fish for them in April when they're feeding hard, putting on weight, in peak condition and the water's still relatively cool.

    No, we don't want idiots fishing for shoaled up spawningfish on the gravels every year. But the people who least want that are those who have to make money out of the fishery over the longterm. And we probably don't want people fishing forspawned out, ropey-looking fish that need to re-charge their batteries. That's why we need to do the science andfind out what we really should do to bestconserve fish stocksand thenteach anglers allabout it.

    (And Ray, what exactly does the fisheries department do that any other non-governmentalorganisation couldn't?)

  3. #93
    Wolfman Woody Guest

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    &quot;Some people seem to be losing their perspective. The closed season wasn't put in place to protect spawning fish, it just became the reason it was kept. It was originally put in place to keep the plebs off the river while the upper classes fished for salmon....&quot;

    Best read up on your history and the Mundella Act, Greg. In brief.

  4. #94
    Join Date
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    Peterborough
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    Cheers Woody, I (obviously) hadn't read that.

    So one reason was rich people protecting their fishing (after all they were the onesvoting in Parliament)and the other was to protect fishstocks from wholesale slaughter.

    If they werekilling so many fish how did they think a closed season was going to help? We've had a great idea, let's restrict fishing around the time when most fish are spawning... Oops, we killed them all before they could!

    Whatever the reason, times have a-changed. We've learnt how to weigh and release fish back to the water alive (well, most of us have...).

  5. #95
    Dave Slater Guest

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    Greg,

    I think we are on the same page. It is not good to fish for spawned out fish, when they are in poor condition, particularly in hot weather when there is less oxygen in the water. If I remember correctly Bob Roberts thought we should have a close season during the summer months, something I agree with completely. I also agree with Graham and others that whatever system we have should apply to rivers and still waters alike. People know where they stand then.

  6. #96

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    Ok Greg,you have some valid points there and my intention was not to have a poop at A.T but i dont agree the rivers are empty at least not round my way.The last 3 years i have noticed a massive increase of anglers on the bank.Maybe it seems empty as a river is hundreds ofmiles long where as most ponds are what,a couple of hundred meters of bank?
    The one thing i will say is that if as you say no-one is fishing the rivers, how is an extension to the closed season going to affect anyones business? That part of your post makes no sense whatsoever!
    The article mainly focused on tackle shops going under from lack of business and said an extension would provide more business so if your post was true the only ones that would benefit would be yourselves!
    I hope that doesnt sound as though im trying to get at you just pointing out the holes in your arguement.I do however totally agree with you that the close season should be moved to really benefit the fish.

  7. #97
    Join Date
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    Peterborough
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    The tackle shops angle was an excuse for writing the story Paul, they wereclaiming it would help their business. We just report what people say. I didn't write that story, but did write the one that's in tomorrow's paper which raises the issue of thenew closed season-making powers the EA will getif the Marine Bill is passed later this year.

    I don't think anyone will benefit financially from removing the closed season on rivers,except perhapssavvy fishery managers who could run their riverfisheries as year-round enterprises. In theory, such people would be most inclined to protect the stocks they have in the long term financial interests of their business. We have to remember commercial stillwater fisheries weren't particularly viable while we still had a closed season and they couldn't trade for three months of the year.

    I can't see how Angling Times would benefit either. Most of our readers fish commercials or club waters - we're not going to sell them more papers just because they can fish rivers all year.

    Which beggars the question why I give a damn anyway? My answer to that would be that the present situation is a ridiculous fudge that raises more questions than it provides answers. The EA says the current closed 'protects most of the species most of the time'. Protects them from what, when, why? Says who? Spawning fish don't want to feed, they just want to chase each others around and bash each other to bits. Can't see angling at such times being tooproductive, let alone damaging to fish, not when they're busy injuring themselves! Then there's the fact that pike and perch have been spawning in rivers over the last few weeks, and barbel and chub will inevitably be spawning after the 12th.

    Personally, I'd like to stay on the rivers for another four weeks before the stillwater sport picks up. Totally selfish from my point of view. Just don't thinkthat would be an issue.I live too far from the sea to realistically do that and stillwater trout fishing really doesn't float my boat - done plenty of it and find it incredibly dull. But the Salmon and Freshwater fisheries review saw experts from numerous fields agree that, until any science proved things one way or the other, we should keep it as a precautionary principle. So, any right minded person will probably agree, we need to do the science....

  8. #98

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    OkGreg .Fair point i suppose and the last two paragraphes i 100% agree with you on!

  9. #99

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    Greg said: I can't see how Angling Times would benefit either. Most of our readers fish commercials or club waters - we're not going to sell them more papers just because they can fish rivers all year.

    AT exists to carry adverts and earn the revenue that that provides, so yes, AT would benefit. Barbel are the new carp, and, thankfully, most worthwhile barbel live in rivers. Seems that most manufacturers have latched onto this market place, even if AT hasn't!

    Hell of a lot of anglers take their holidays on the Broads, 120 miles or so of public rivers. The angling pound, estimated to easily top a million, is of huge, huge importance to the Broads, and by ignoring the Broads AT is missing out.

    Greg, I really can't accept that AT wouldn't see greater advertising revenue if there were no river's close season. Might not gain any more readers, but advertisers would, I'm sure, vote with their advertising budgets.

    And if it isn't such an issue then why does AT, with monotonous regularity, raise the issue year in and year out? If so few anglers of any consequence fish rivers then why does it matter?

  10. #100

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    &quot;This journal which first meets the world today,the 10th of July 1953 is for the angler.Then who is the angler?

    Is he the Yorkshireman who catches trout and grayling and salmon,and,lowerdown coarse fish that come down from the Pennines, over the high moors to the plain? Yes, he is the angler.

    Is he the man of Sheffield orBirmingham who goes at weekends to fish in matches or catch his bream in the |Witham or Severn? Yes, he is the angler too.

    Or is he perhaps one of those who fish for flatfish or conger,sea bream or bass or anyothers of the fish that may be had round our long coast? Yes he is also the angler.

    So are the men of the Thames and the Lea, the fishers of the Great Ouse and all it's tributaries'tohose that fish the reedy maze of Norfolk waters, and all the mens of the Somerset waters, Brue Parrat, and Sedgemore drain. All Britains coarse fishermen are the angler.

    The angler is also the catcher of salmon in the Wye,Dee,Deveron and Tay; the trout fisher of Test or higland burn, Teme or Tees reserviour of loch.

    The angler is everyone in whom in whom is the love of the waterside and the bending rod.

    All this multitude, is in this, one man. Coarse fisher trout fisher salmon fisher, sea fisher, argue as they may within their ranks, have one common interest, a common bond. So great a throng with one purpose, whatever it's differences, needs a voice to speak for it, to represent it, to inform it; it needs a common ground where all it's points may meet;

    All this Angling Times will do. It is the anglers own paper. I hope he will find it worthy of him&quot;

    This was the first ever leader written in AT written by Bernard Venables as a youngster I used to look forward with glee to the publication date every week to reads words of wisdom from my angling gods Walker Stone and Taylor Hugh Stoker and all the other writers on all aspects of angling coarse game and sea, all used to be there dispensing wisdom.

    It used to get involved in sensible campaigns to save canals , support the work of the ACA, the setting up of the BRFC.

    Nowadays we seem to be treated to something that is seriously dumbed down to the level of Sunsational reporting &quot;Rampant Redfins Romp in the Rother&quot; Or &quot;Catch Cypryphrenia We all go Carp Crazy!!!&quot;

    Who can forget the embarrasment that was the 'Cormorant Campaign' with some Twong dressed like a third rate terrorist, face covered, trying to look menacing with his Theoben rapid seven air rifle.

    Whatever happened to the sometimes lofty ideals expressed by Bernard Venables all those years ago?

    Whatever happened to the variety of writing? There is more to fishing than the very limited range of articles that AT peddle week in week out.

    Perhaps if some emphasis were to be put back into variety and quality it is more than possible that we might starft buying it again.

    Until then sadly no.

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