Should the River season be extended one month?
- Thread starter Mark Wintle
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GrahamM
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"In contrast to stillwaters, most river fisheries are in multiple ownership,......."
OK, I accept that that particular point makes them different from stillwaters, but I don't accept that it has anything to do with the validity of a closed season.
All the other points being made, ie, pressure, bankside disturbance, birdlife, give the fish a rest, etc, etc, apply equally to stillwaters, so there is little point in trotting out those reasons for a closed season. If those reasons were valid there would still be a closed season on stillwaters.
OK, I accept that that particular point makes them different from stillwaters, but I don't accept that it has anything to do with the validity of a closed season.
All the other points being made, ie, pressure, bankside disturbance, birdlife, give the fish a rest, etc, etc, apply equally to stillwaters, so there is little point in trotting out those reasons for a closed season. If those reasons were valid there would still be a closed season on stillwaters.
C
Cakey
Guest
Graham what Ive seen of some stillwaters it should be the other way around !
F
Fred Bonney
Guest
I wish I had something to say about this, but it's the same old same old.
So I'm not bothering ,there will be no change in my lifetime!
So I'm not bothering ,there will be no change in my lifetime!
Ray Daywalker Clarke
Well-known member
Just got to take up on Muffins post from the EA, what a load of Crap, I don't mean you Muffin.
The sentence itself says the fish move freely, as for spawning, well, fish don't always spawn in the same place's, so thats that argument out the window. If I own a section of river and let anglers fish it, and lets sayCakey own's another section and doesn't let anglers fish it, what has that got to do with the close season.
Angler's won't be catching his fish or walking his bank, the fact is there is no proof and will not be any until all rivers are fished during the closed season. Then and only then will any one have any idea.
There will be those who say, thats right fish the rivers all year, anglers will target big fish in spawn to claim records, well sorry, but how many fish are caught during the season with spawn. As for those targeting big fish, well it will be the Barbel Boy's, and it will be the Barbel Boy's saying keep the close season.
Stillwater's seem to be doing a hell of a lot better without the close season, I for one thought there would be damage to fish stock's and wildlife, wrong, the wildlife is better off with Anglers on the bank.
How did they get the evidence for the canals? there used to be a close season on them also,a point someone seems to have over looked.
The sentence itself says the fish move freely, as for spawning, well, fish don't always spawn in the same place's, so thats that argument out the window. If I own a section of river and let anglers fish it, and lets sayCakey own's another section and doesn't let anglers fish it, what has that got to do with the close season.
Angler's won't be catching his fish or walking his bank, the fact is there is no proof and will not be any until all rivers are fished during the closed season. Then and only then will any one have any idea.
There will be those who say, thats right fish the rivers all year, anglers will target big fish in spawn to claim records, well sorry, but how many fish are caught during the season with spawn. As for those targeting big fish, well it will be the Barbel Boy's, and it will be the Barbel Boy's saying keep the close season.
Stillwater's seem to be doing a hell of a lot better without the close season, I for one thought there would be damage to fish stock's and wildlife, wrong, the wildlife is better off with Anglers on the bank.
How did they get the evidence for the canals? there used to be a close season on them also,a point someone seems to have over looked.
Grumpy Git @
Well-known member
Bryan
Your observation that the rivers get a lot of rest is true to some extent. On the Bristol Avon over the last few weeks I have not seen very many people out at all. Sunday the weather was a bit warmer and out came a few fair weather anglers. The numbers on other rivers, Trent, Severn etc. may be greater but then those are much larger rivers and can therefore handle the numbers.
Muffin
The EA argument regarding the 'scientific proof' came along last year when the close season was discussed at length on this forum. Back then it was asked how do you get the scientific proof if you never allow the rivers to remain open? The EA are taking the easy option in their argument to keep the close season on these grounds.
True we can all go along to our local canal, commercial or club still water if the withdrawal symptoms become too great or even chuck some fluff but the question will always remain. What is the difference between a still water fish and a river fish? IMHO none.
Your observation that the rivers get a lot of rest is true to some extent. On the Bristol Avon over the last few weeks I have not seen very many people out at all. Sunday the weather was a bit warmer and out came a few fair weather anglers. The numbers on other rivers, Trent, Severn etc. may be greater but then those are much larger rivers and can therefore handle the numbers.
Muffin
The EA argument regarding the 'scientific proof' came along last year when the close season was discussed at length on this forum. Back then it was asked how do you get the scientific proof if you never allow the rivers to remain open? The EA are taking the easy option in their argument to keep the close season on these grounds.
True we can all go along to our local canal, commercial or club still water if the withdrawal symptoms become too great or even chuck some fluff but the question will always remain. What is the difference between a still water fish and a river fish? IMHO none.
Bryan Baron 2
Well-known member
If DEFRA was as keen to protect the sea fish as the EA are to protect the river fish then there would be no problem as we coyuld all go sea fishing.
But at the moment there is more chance of me catching a double of the river than a 3Ib cod from the sea.
But at the moment there is more chance of me catching a double of the river than a 3Ib cod from the sea.
C
Cakey
Guest
Ray not all stillwaters are doing better without a close season I can think of three around here with that are totally and utterly over fished and the banks are bare of any plant life
then again the North Met loves all yearround fishing
then again the North Met loves all yearround fishing
Grumpy Git @
Well-known member
Note to self - don't go off for dinner and post after. Lost plot! /forum/smilies/embarassed_smiley.gif
"So I'm not bothering ,there will be no change in my lifetime!"
From my many exchanges of correspondence with the EA, over a couple of years,that is the impression that I get.
Man's greed over the environment should never succeed in my humble opinion.
Personally, ifI had the powerI would re-introduce the closed season on <u>all waters</u>, still, canal or river!
How can any angler take the moral high ground vis-a-vis conservation, and still pretend that he wants to fish all year around?
Much like Cakey, in my area there are more than a few stillwater venues that are now devoid of bankside vegetation and virtually fished-out.
From my many exchanges of correspondence with the EA, over a couple of years,that is the impression that I get.
Man's greed over the environment should never succeed in my humble opinion.
Personally, ifI had the powerI would re-introduce the closed season on <u>all waters</u>, still, canal or river!
How can any angler take the moral high ground vis-a-vis conservation, and still pretend that he wants to fish all year around?
Much like Cakey, in my area there are more than a few stillwater venues that are now devoid of bankside vegetation and virtually fished-out.
Michael Townsend 3
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The cormorants love the close season.
The bad one
Well-known member
Poor fishing conditions my ar*e!
I've had the best winter's chub fishing I can ever remember in over 40 years, taking on av. 4 fish a trip, and as many as10 fish between 3.5 and 6.2. If that's poor fishing conditions I'd like more of it please!
And do you know what? In most cases my mate and myself have had the whole length to ourselves on one of the most poplar lengths of the club.
Reason -It's been to clod for those who cast at butterflies.
What errant nonsense Argumentative Times comes out!
I've had the best winter's chub fishing I can ever remember in over 40 years, taking on av. 4 fish a trip, and as many as10 fish between 3.5 and 6.2. If that's poor fishing conditions I'd like more of it please!
And do you know what? In most cases my mate and myself have had the whole length to ourselves on one of the most poplar lengths of the club.
Reason -It's been to clod for those who cast at butterflies.
What errant nonsense Argumentative Times comes out!
<blockquote class=quoteheader>Bryan Baron 2 wrote </blockquote><blockquote class=quote>
But at the moment there is more chance of me catching a double of the river than a 3Ib cod from the sea.</blockquote>
Thats a lot of b******s Bryan, have you talked to any sea anglers or read any sea angling publications lately, this past 12 months has seen shore cod captures increase beyond previous ten year figures.
But what do I know I have fewer forum posts than you. <blockquote class=quoteheader>The bad one wrote (see)</blockquote><blockquote class=quote>
Poor fishing conditions my ar*e!
I've had the best winter's chub fishing I can ever remember in over 40 years, taking on av. 4 fish a trip, and as many as10 fish between 3.5 and 6.2. If that's poor fishing conditions I'd like more of it please!
And do you know what? In most cases my mate and myself have had the whole length to ourselves on one of the most poplar lengths of the club.
Reason -It's been to clod for those who cast at butterflies.
What errant nonsense Argumentative Times comes out!</blockquote>
Couldn't agree more Bad One
But at the moment there is more chance of me catching a double of the river than a 3Ib cod from the sea.</blockquote>
Thats a lot of b******s Bryan, have you talked to any sea anglers or read any sea angling publications lately, this past 12 months has seen shore cod captures increase beyond previous ten year figures.
But what do I know I have fewer forum posts than you. <blockquote class=quoteheader>The bad one wrote (see)</blockquote><blockquote class=quote>
Poor fishing conditions my ar*e!
I've had the best winter's chub fishing I can ever remember in over 40 years, taking on av. 4 fish a trip, and as many as10 fish between 3.5 and 6.2. If that's poor fishing conditions I'd like more of it please!
And do you know what? In most cases my mate and myself have had the whole length to ourselves on one of the most poplar lengths of the club.
Reason -It's been to clod for those who cast at butterflies.
What errant nonsense Argumentative Times comes out!</blockquote>
Couldn't agree more Bad One
Bryan Baron 2
Well-known member
Well why dont you pop upto the flyde coasst and show us all how to do it. As the lads i know that fish there every week have not even seen a cod over 3Ib for the last few years.
The Cod chmpionships held there every year as not been won with a cod for the past 6 years that i can remember. Min reason i know longer fish the winter. Must say that the smoothound run ibn the summer as increased and fish in the 5 -10Ib range are regularly caught. But Cod i have forgot whet they even look like.
But what do io know i have only been fishing ther for the last 36 years.
But then i do not believe what is written in the mags as if you read the reports the cod are in plague proportions. But then again there not going to sell many mags if they say the stocks are totaly depleated.
Except of coarse in your neck of the woods. You must live in paradise.
The Cod chmpionships held there every year as not been won with a cod for the past 6 years that i can remember. Min reason i know longer fish the winter. Must say that the smoothound run ibn the summer as increased and fish in the 5 -10Ib range are regularly caught. But Cod i have forgot whet they even look like.
But what do io know i have only been fishing ther for the last 36 years.
But then i do not believe what is written in the mags as if you read the reports the cod are in plague proportions. But then again there not going to sell many mags if they say the stocks are totaly depleated.
Except of coarse in your neck of the woods. You must live in paradise.
<blockquote class=quoteheader>Bryan Baron 2 wrote (see)</blockquote><blockquote class=quote>
Well why dont you pop upto the flyde coasst and show us all how to do it. As the lads i know that fish there every week have not even seen a cod over 3Ib for the last few years.
The Cod chmpionships held there every year as not been won with a cod for the past 6 years that i can remember. Min reason i know longer fish the winter. Must say that the smoothound run ibn the summer as increased and fish in the 5 -10Ib range are regularly caught. But Cod i have forgot whet they even look like.
But what do io know i have only been fishing ther for the last 36 years.
But then i do not believe what is written in the mags as if you read the reports the cod are in plague proportions. But then again there not going to sell many mags if they say the stocks are totaly depleated.
Except of coarse in your neck of the woods. You must live in paradise.</blockquote>
LOL so now you have issues about years spent fishing.
Thanks for magazine comment, nice touch Bryan, I don't read them either, a month or two ago I didn't visit this forum site either, but you seem to love it here, so this must all be more honest right???
I live on the east coast and cod captures are through the roof.
Perhaps round your way they are too busy worrying about bad weather and government body desicions.
Anyway, I am going to leave this thread alone now, tis getting a little silly, people only want to air their opinion and they get oppressed by those of higher forum counts, like those with less have no experience.
Well why dont you pop upto the flyde coasst and show us all how to do it. As the lads i know that fish there every week have not even seen a cod over 3Ib for the last few years.
The Cod chmpionships held there every year as not been won with a cod for the past 6 years that i can remember. Min reason i know longer fish the winter. Must say that the smoothound run ibn the summer as increased and fish in the 5 -10Ib range are regularly caught. But Cod i have forgot whet they even look like.
But what do io know i have only been fishing ther for the last 36 years.
But then i do not believe what is written in the mags as if you read the reports the cod are in plague proportions. But then again there not going to sell many mags if they say the stocks are totaly depleated.
Except of coarse in your neck of the woods. You must live in paradise.</blockquote>
LOL so now you have issues about years spent fishing.
Thanks for magazine comment, nice touch Bryan, I don't read them either, a month or two ago I didn't visit this forum site either, but you seem to love it here, so this must all be more honest right???
I live on the east coast and cod captures are through the roof.
Perhaps round your way they are too busy worrying about bad weather and government body desicions.
Anyway, I am going to leave this thread alone now, tis getting a little silly, people only want to air their opinion and they get oppressed by those of higher forum counts, like those with less have no experience.
A
Andy "the Dog" Nellist (SAA) (ACA)
Guest
I fish a stillwater which is owned by two clubs one of which has a closed season and the other doesn't.
The closed season does not protect fish. That is abundantly evident on the stillwaters I fish where removal of the closed season has clearly led to anglers to fishfor species when the conditions were right not whenthe arbitary dates of a closed season allowed them back on the banks.
That there is still a closed season on rivers isjust anotherexample of the EA not actually following the recommendations of the Salmon and Freshwater Fisheries review.
Another would be the stocking of fish into rivers up and down the country bred from brood fish taken from other rivers, or allowing 2 million carp to be stocked a year or allowing barbel bred at EA fish farms to be stocked in stillwaters.
The problem is the EA has too many roles and often is poacher and gamekeeper.
Around Oxford they are now planning to trash the Seacourt Stream and spend £100M doing so in order to divert flood water round the city. It doesn't seem to have occured to the EA that in the worst floods in 50 years only 169 homes were flooded and a lot of that could have been prevented if the run off therough the weirswas coordinated locally rather than from an office in Bristol.
The EA has too many hats and is not enough public accountablility. The consultation document on the Oxford plans provides a classic example of this. Thedocumentis twenty two pages long, readslike a year 10 school project andprovides virtually no information at all about what they are actually planning to do. I've read it butI can't respond because I have no idea what they are planning to really do.
The closed season does not protect fish. That is abundantly evident on the stillwaters I fish where removal of the closed season has clearly led to anglers to fishfor species when the conditions were right not whenthe arbitary dates of a closed season allowed them back on the banks.
That there is still a closed season on rivers isjust anotherexample of the EA not actually following the recommendations of the Salmon and Freshwater Fisheries review.
Another would be the stocking of fish into rivers up and down the country bred from brood fish taken from other rivers, or allowing 2 million carp to be stocked a year or allowing barbel bred at EA fish farms to be stocked in stillwaters.
The problem is the EA has too many roles and often is poacher and gamekeeper.
Around Oxford they are now planning to trash the Seacourt Stream and spend £100M doing so in order to divert flood water round the city. It doesn't seem to have occured to the EA that in the worst floods in 50 years only 169 homes were flooded and a lot of that could have been prevented if the run off therough the weirswas coordinated locally rather than from an office in Bristol.
The EA has too many hats and is not enough public accountablility. The consultation document on the Oxford plans provides a classic example of this. Thedocumentis twenty two pages long, readslike a year 10 school project andprovides virtually no information at all about what they are actually planning to do. I've read it butI can't respond because I have no idea what they are planning to really do.
Bryan Baron 2
Well-known member
My last word
Thanks for magazine comment, nice touch Bryan, I don't read them either, a month or two ago I didn't visit this forum site either, but you seem to love it here, so this must all be more honest right???
As i have met most of the guys and galson here yes itrust what they say.
6 lads went to the east coast last weekend result 1 cod 3.8Ib and 1 bass 4Ib returned. I do not call that stuffed.
So goodbye.
Thanks for magazine comment, nice touch Bryan, I don't read them either, a month or two ago I didn't visit this forum site either, but you seem to love it here, so this must all be more honest right???
As i have met most of the guys and galson here yes itrust what they say.
6 lads went to the east coast last weekend result 1 cod 3.8Ib and 1 bass 4Ib returned. I do not call that stuffed.
So goodbye.
Sorry Bryan, I do apologise, just trying to air my view as most forum users do.
I am sorry your pals struggled last weekend, but as happens evey Jan/feb the larger Cod move offshore to spawn it is believed, but they will be back, thats fishing for you I guess.
I fully understand you know most people on here, but you don't know me, I just tried to have a say, and I felt you got a little upset at me.
Facts are that you probably fish some awesome rivers the likes of I would have to travel 100's of miles to visit, I content myself with my local rivers and am pleased we currently have a closed season (just my opinion), given their small, low stock nature.
Once again I sincerley apologise to you and would hope my time on FM is not marred by our getting off on the wrong foot.
Scott.
P.S. I hope the weather holds out and we all have a great last couple of weeks to the season.
I am sorry your pals struggled last weekend, but as happens evey Jan/feb the larger Cod move offshore to spawn it is believed, but they will be back, thats fishing for you I guess.
I fully understand you know most people on here, but you don't know me, I just tried to have a say, and I felt you got a little upset at me.
Facts are that you probably fish some awesome rivers the likes of I would have to travel 100's of miles to visit, I content myself with my local rivers and am pleased we currently have a closed season (just my opinion), given their small, low stock nature.
Once again I sincerley apologise to you and would hope my time on FM is not marred by our getting off on the wrong foot.
Scott.
P.S. I hope the weather holds out and we all have a great last couple of weeks to the season.
Bryan Baron 2
Well-known member
Only have the Ribble have to travel over 100 miles for any of the big rivers like the Trent and Severn also.
Have a good last few weeks also
Have a good last few weeks also
W
Wolfman Woody
Guest
Andy, you would be very welcome to have my seat on the TFCC which is also attended by a representative of the EA Fisheries Dept. That would give you a chance to air your views adequately.
Not that I think it would do much good, mind.
Head, wall, banging - comes to mind.
It sounds as if this has nothing to do with the thread topic, but last year he (the EA man) brought up to subject of smallboat licences and the EA are wondering why there's a drop off. I reasoned that there are no free facilities (slipways) for launching boats that are close to secure carp parks and that many small boat owners probably are anglers and two months of reasonable warm weather conditions (½April, May ½June) they can't use their boats for fishing<u> because of the close season</u>. It's all self defeating.
Know what? After sending a three page report with maps and photographs, I haven't heard another damned word. Part of the reason? Our Recreations Department at the EA Thames Division does not recognise angling as a recreational activity.
Well that's what I think.
Not that I think it would do much good, mind.
Head, wall, banging - comes to mind.
It sounds as if this has nothing to do with the thread topic, but last year he (the EA man) brought up to subject of smallboat licences and the EA are wondering why there's a drop off. I reasoned that there are no free facilities (slipways) for launching boats that are close to secure carp parks and that many small boat owners probably are anglers and two months of reasonable warm weather conditions (½April, May ½June) they can't use their boats for fishing<u> because of the close season</u>. It's all self defeating.
Know what? After sending a three page report with maps and photographs, I haven't heard another damned word. Part of the reason? Our Recreations Department at the EA Thames Division does not recognise angling as a recreational activity.
Well that's what I think.