Wintle?s World ? A little too precious?

[Dave Slater]

Philip,

This is because commercial fisheries are generally overstocked holes in the ground and are totally unnatural. Personally I don't see why they should be treated any differently to rivers. Why are carp any more special than natural river fish? In my opinion fishing was far better before we had these awful commercial waters and carp fishing became more commercialised with ready made baits etc. Things are now made too easy, probably for the otters as well as the anglers. /forum/smilies/smile_smiley.gif This is why I switched almost exclusively to river fishing and I am glad I did as I have never been happier with my fishing.

I enjoy the day and the wildlife, especially on quiet stretches,and there is nothing better than catching a big fish I had no idea was there. Very exciting.

 

[Philip]

Actually Dave I think you and I actually have pretty similar views and the majority of my fishing is done on rivers or natural waters. I particularly likedyour comment - “I enjoy the day and the wildlife, especially on quiet stretches,and there is nothing better than catching a big fish I had no idea was there. Very exciting” ….spot on mate, totally agree!

Anyway I hope I was not giving the impression that Carp were any more or less important than any other fish. I simply used them as the example as many commercials are focused on them…actually in my previous post I used the example Chub for exactly that reason…to not show any bias!

The thing about the commercials however is that love em or hate em they are here to stay and do fill a niche. There are anglers who want nice landscaped banks and the guarantee of a full net. It may not be your or my cup of tea but there are lots of people whose boat it does float and cant wait to get stuck in. I suspect Mr. Otter is one of them and the damage he can cause on this type of water is enormous. Now should a commercial get cleared out by an Otter I don’t think it would be right for me tosay “so what” simply because I don’t want to fish it. Don’t get me wrong I am not saying that rivers are not at risk as well, it’s just my opinion that they will be impacted to a lesser extent….but I could be wrong…

That’s why I think one of the angling bodies out there may be in the best position to look at the issue as they (hopefully) wont show any bias towards any one water or type or angler and will deal with the issue as a whole on behalf of all anglers. Right I am off for a bath …I just got back from a quick after work session on a river and got totally soaked, covered in mud and blanked ! …I guess there are some disadvantages to fishing the natural waters /forum/smilies/smile_smiley.gif

 

[coelacanth]

<blockquote class=quoteheader>Philip wrote (see)</blockquote><blockquote class=quote>Right I am off for a bath …I just got back from a quick after work session on a river and got totally soaked, covered in mud and blanked ! …I guess there are some disadvantages to fishing the natural waters /forum/smilies/smile_smiley.gif</blockquote>
You're either North of the border or you were doing some very muddy flyfishing?

 

[Philip]

or I'm not in the uk.

...you guys still not scrapped that close season yet? /forum/smilies/wink_smiley.gif

 

[Steve Spiller]

Ah.....now I know who you are Philip /forum/smilies/smile_smiley.gif/forum/smilies/wink_smiley.gif

 

[stuart clough]

Mark, many have praised the quality of the writing, and the worthiness of the message - I won't disagree. In fact it would be too easy to fall into line, nod in all the right places and reinforceyour fairly obvious message as regards otters. But what does your piece aim to add to the sum of knowledge? Or, for that matter, to do to enhance the sport of angling?This is a site for anglers, andthe best angler, IMHO, is the one who enjoysHIS sport the most.If that angler gains HIS enjoyment from targeting the largest fish of a particular species, and something threatens his particular, albeit specialist branch of enjoyment, I'm not sure we should collectively dismiss his concerns as histrionics, just because they don't align withyour own particular way of gaining enjoyment from the sport.A little too precious? Too quick to take our sport too seriously? The problem as I see it is that as a sport we are far too quick to split into factions and not stand as one. In fact few seem to takeour sportseriously enough to unite for long enough to make a difference. It is far too easy to take pot shots at others who don't have the same view as ourselves. We shouldn't be so worried about alienating the general public,until we can stop alienating each other.I'm sure Iwill bethe only dissenting voice, but I am not sure what your attack on some anglers ego's was meant to achieve, other than to inflate your own?

 

[Big Sky]

The otter haters of the world are going to get us marginalised ,we as a whole are people that want to keep a balance with nature and to the public as a whole love otters if you want to see the damage they can do look at Terry Nuttkins hands one and a half fingers gone off one hand and a thumb off another .But jokeing apart useing the otter as public enemy No 1 will win us no wars,they were here before us .

To quote this weeks Angler's mail letter of the week " Treat otters as our friends-or we will gain enemies

we must find a balance or we WILL loose.

I am both an avid fisher and a naturlist iv,e been fishingsince i was 5 now i'm 41 but i bird watch and when i'm fishing i have my eyes open and love to watch it all , I don't care if i blank as long as iv,e seen somthing Joe normal hasn't seen, be it otter,dragonfly ,bitton or other to quote John Hoffgardener fishing teaches you to walk with your eyes open .

And how can we have the arudasety" i think thats how it,s spelt"to moan about otters when people are still throwing fish up the bank to die beacause they might eat to many of the fish in our club waters .Why just Pike why stop there there's perchto and chub as well.

Throw them all up the bank and soon we have nothing but Carp witch i love to fish for ( proper carp not F1s) or stockies.

Fishing is about balance when the AM stocked the Seven in the 70ts with Barbel it was said to be a dissaster now it,s reached a balance . the things we should be screaming about is the top mouth gudgen and the signel and turkish crayfish they will do more long tearm damage than any otter.

BS

 

[Dave Slater]

<blockquote class=quoteheader>Philip wrote (see)</blockquote><blockquote class=quote>

Actually Dave I think you and I actually have pretty similar views and the majority of my fishing is done on rivers or natural waters. I particularly likedyour comment - “I enjoy the day and the wildlife, especially on quiet stretches,and there is nothing better than catching a big fish I had no idea was there. Very exciting” ….spot on mate, totally agree!

Anyway I hope I was not giving the impression that Carp were any more or less important than any other fish. I simply used them as the example as many commercials are focused on them…actually in my previous post I used the example Chub for exactly that reason…to not show any bias!

The thing about the commercials however is that love em or hate em they are here to stay and do fill a niche. There are anglers who want nice landscaped banks and the guarantee of a full net. It may not be your or my cup of tea but there are lots of people whose boat it does float and cant wait to get stuck in. I suspect Mr. Otter is one of them and the damage he can cause on this type of water is enormous. Now should a commercial get cleared out by an Otter I don’t think it would be right for me tosay “so what” simply because I don’t want to fish it. Don’t get me wrong I am not saying that rivers are not at risk as well, it’s just my opinion that they will be impacted to a lesser extent….but I could be wrong…

That’s why I think one of the angling bodies out there may be in the best position to look at the issue as they (hopefully) wont show any bias towards any one water or type or angler and will deal with the issue as a whole on behalf of all anglers. Right I am off for a bath …I just got back from a quick after work session on a river and got totally soaked, covered in mud and blanked ! …I guess there are some disadvantages to fishing the natural waters /forum/smilies/smile_smiley.gif</blockquote>


Thanks for the clarification Philip. You are right, we do agree more or less 100%

/forum/smilies/smile_smiley.gif

 

[Phillips Jerry]

Reintroduce otter's is madness man is playing God again,my brother lives on Skye they have otters only because the eco system can support them. Give it 10 years an they will be reintroducing Bream Roach Chub to a river near you.What next Wolves Wooly mamoths,where will it end ?

 

[Bryan Baron 2]

But Jerry they were here until we imposed ourself on them. We are not playing God we did that decades ago. Made in his image ut with outr his knowledge. Also Scotland could do with wolves coming back to help control the deer herds.

 

[Phillips Jerry]

We must accept that we can't turn the clock back Otters died out for a reason ,and if there surviving in the wild and haven't repopulate there old haunts there must be a reason.What happens when the wolves have eaten all the sheep,then they might try and catch a deer /forum/smilies/smile_smiley.gif

 

[Bryan Baron 2]

Half the rivers that now have fish were once dead through polution. We have introduced the fish back so why not there predators.

 

[Steve Spiller]

"until we can stop alienating each other.I'm sure Iwill bethe only dissenting voice, but I am not sure what your attack on some anglers ego's was meant to achieve, other than to inflate your own?"

Stuart, I didn't read it as an attack? Marks article hit some home truths with me.

The article opened my eyes and reminded me it's supposed to be enjoyable. I was chasing a 2lb roach (still am) I work 7am-3pm Mon'-Thurs' 7-12.30pm on Friday. I ended up leaving my tackle in the car all week so that I could leave work and bomb up the motorway (45mins each way) and grab two and a half hours fishing Mon'-Thurs'. Friday was a bonus, I could grab five and a half hours fishing.

I was fishing 3-4 times per week with one thing on my mind, a 2lb Bristol Avon roach. I didn't get it, but I worked damn hard for it! Looking back I didn't enjoy it, I was beating myself up over it.

I then fished with Andy Nellist on the Thames and it all changed, I didn't get the '2' but we had a great time. That was whenI started questioning what I was doing.

I can seewhere you're coming from Stuart, but the bottom line is enjoyment. If you're not enjoying it, sort your head out and change things. If you are that's fine carry on.

I'm going to a club lake tomorrow, hemp and casters on the wag and pole, total enjoyment....

 

[Michael Townsend 3]

I agree with Stuart. The best angler is the one who enjoys his sport the most, whatever that is to you.

 

[Michael Townsend 3]

If otters are so wonderful, why do we all hate the cormorant? They do the same thing don't they? Only cormorants eat smaller fish, so why aren't we all behind the 'black death' then?

Now I don't know loads about nature, but as far as I've been told,an ottersstaple diet is / was eels. The eel is, apparently, 99% down in numbers from previous years so immediately nature is unbalanced before re-releasing otters.

I see in the future, otters eating all the big fish, cormorants eating all the small fish, signal crayfish eating all the eggs. Doom and gloom!!! All of mans doing too.

Nuture does usually balance out in the end, but have you seen the pike in Sywell? Huge heads and no body because of cormorants wiping out the roach. The pike have to eat the ducklings to survive. I bet the RSPB would love that if they knew about it.

Herons are now having to eat baby rabbits in places, again because there are no small fish to eat.

I would be gutted if someone re introduced an otter or otters where I was enjoying my fishing, only for them to eat all of the good fish. If nature was ready for their release, there would be an abundance of their natural food to eat, eels.

Lets be honest, man makes a pigs ear out of trying to control nature so he should just leave it be. After all where does it all end......Dinosaurs?

 

[Wolfman Woody]

<blockquote class=quoteheader>Phillips Jerry wrote (see)</blockquote><blockquote class=quote>

We must accept that we can't turn the clock back Otters died out for a reason </blockquote>

Hmmm, I thought it was mostly due to pollution and enchroachment into green belt areas. I can only remember seeing one when I was but a nipper on the Ouzel near Stoke Hammond.<blockquote class=quoteheader> </blockquote><blockquote class=quoteheader>Michael Townsend 3 wrote (see)</blockquote><blockquote class=quote>

Lets be honest, man makes a pigs ear out of trying to control nature so he should just leave it be. After all where does it all end......Dinosaurs?</blockquote>


Gosh, are dinosaurs under threat of extinction now?

I think the reason we can't compare otters with cormorants is because cormorants are a coastal bird, the RSPB's own handbook of 1976 said there were no colonies between Spurn Head (Yorkshire) and the Isle of Wight. So where do all ours come from?

A good many cormorants now are the Turkish variety (or cross breeds) Carbo Sennilis and these are more of an inland bird rather than coastal. Cormorants (our sort) don't belong inland whereas otters do.

Mind you, I would be pretty mad if someone released an otter within a mile of my commercial lake, if I had one that is.

I think Mark's is a simple enough message and doesn't 'attack' anyone, he just says enjoy what you can enjoy and don't worry about chasing numbers. Just as well because I gave that up years ago.

I just wonder if woolly mammoths would help solve the world food shortage?

Hmmmmmm, woolly mammoth!

 

[coelacanth]

<blockquote class=quoteheader>Michael Townsend 3 wrote (see)</blockquote><blockquote class=quote>I agree with Stuart. The best angler is the one who enjoys his sport the most, whatever that is to you.</blockquote>


So, the best angler is, say,a Pike angler who enjoys his sport very much, meanwhile transporting livebaits from place to place, into Scotland, across to Ireland etc.? No, that can't be right, although it fits the above definition.

How about the bloke who has a great session, catches a netful, then chucks his litter, including 20 yards of mono, into a bush, and walks off whistling? He was using an unsafe feeder rig and did lose a couple in a snag, but they're only cheap and he was enjoying himself. No, not that either.

How about someone who gets together with a few of his dysfunctional mates to outbid a club and set up a syndicate on a water that just happens to be throwing up some decent fish, so depriving the local kids of anywhere other than expensive commercialsto learn about fishing? Nope, doesn't sound right.

How about the carper who wants to enjoy his fishing that little bit more, and steals fish from other waters to up his run rate? Ermmmm.

Or how about the angler who enjoys his fishing regardless of what he catches, shares information with people who ask sensibly, cleans up around him when at the water side, would never think of calling going fishing a "campaign", and is able to appreciate thewider perspectiveboth within angling and in the wider world?That sounds a bit closer if you ask me.

 

[Michael Townsend 3]

I'm sure you know what I meant Coelacanth.

Let me add to the end of the statement that you have highlighted.

"As long as they adhere to the angling code and don't break any bylaws,or leave any litter"

As for places becoming syndicates. There's nothing you or I can do about that. Money talks. I'm sure a few people on this site can tell you all about that.

As for unsafe feeder rigs and losing a couple. Well there's no rules about 'safe' or 'unsafe' rigs. As for losing a 'couple in a snag' Well if they were feeders, I'm sure they are cheap and easily replaced. If you meant fish............Well they're only fish.....Otters or cormarants would have got them anyway! Or is it different if an otter kills them?

 

[Dave Slater]

I can't see too much wrong with syndicates as long as they are not formed to take waters away from clubs etc. I have just rejoined a syndicate I was in a few years ago and the nice things are that it isquiet and peacefulas there are only a few members and, as the members are all responsible people, it is not necessary to have restrictive rules.

The reason for rejoining is not to catch bigger fish, as most of my really big fish are from club waters, but for the peace and quiet and to enjoy the countryside. There are some huge fish on my local free stretches, which is good as big fish are available for people who cannot afford club fees, but I prefer the club stretches as there is less litter, noise etc. not because the fish are any bigger.

The syndicate is just a bit of indulgence for some peace and quiet. It isn't all that expensive but they only have people they know as members. Personally I cannot see anything wrong with this but if a syndicate is formed with the sole purpose of stopping others catching big fish I think this is a different matter.

I think that all waters serve a purpose and I am doing something I normally don't do later today. I am going roach fishing on a commercial. I am not too excited about it but it will be nice to have a bit of social fishing with a couple of friends. If I enjoy it I may have another go before the river season starts. These waters are good for youngsters just starting as they are generally overstocked. In my childhood days it was park ponds and canals but results didn't have to be so instant in those days as we were living in a different society.

 

[Peter Jacobs]

" can't see too much wrong with syndicates as long as they are not formed to take waters away from clubs etc."

Me neither.

"The syndicate is just a bit of indulgence for some peace and quiet."

And that is exactly why they are pretty popular in our neck of the woods - the local club stillwater venues seem to be over subscribed and finding a quiet spot is becoming more and more difficult.

That said, there are some almost unfished secions of the RDAA and CAC rivers, and with annual rents going up all the time, (and less and less club anglers fishing the rivers) then the syndicate might be the way forward on a lot of rivers.

I am off to my local Troutvenue in a minute for an afternoon session on the fly, hopefully a few fish from the river will come my way - if not then an hour or two on the lakes will be the order of the day.

Dave - good luck with the Roach fishing.

.