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Thread: More on Hybrids

  1. #1
    Ron Clay Guest


    It is common knowledge that last weeks Angling Times on page 3 was the picture of a 3 lb roach/bream hybrid taken from Linch Hill in Oxon. The caption claimed it was a roach. Both myself, Graham and several members of this web site have sent Emails/letters to AT pointing out this error and on the day of publication too. Yesterday's Angling Times contained no apology for their mistake, which I find rather strange.
    What we do see however is a photograph and report of a "fifty pound pike". Anyone reading this report will realise what a complete load of b----ks it is.
    This begs the question - is angling journalism decending into another abyss. Since Richard Lee became Editor about a year ago, AT has improved in its content by leaps and bounds, having shaken off the dark influence of Kelly and Higginbottom. I hope these two recent cock ups are not a sign that this paper is about to decend to the depths again.

  2. #2
    Paul Williams Guest


    It is going to be difficult for them to do without loosing face, these "roach" have won a lot of prizes!! but i for one will hold them in far higher esteem if they admit an error of judgment has been made.
    On a more serious note, these fish a tremendous fish and the guy's who origanally started the ball rolling deserve a lot of credit, but it does make me wonder if we can ever be sure we have a true roach (or rudd) again !! now that to me is a frightening thought!!

  3. #3


    What concerns me is that this thread hasn't been the subject of more discussion. Apart from Ron and Paul it's almost as though nobody is bothered that so many of the biggest roach(?) caught recently from one particular fishery by so many anglers may not be roach at all.

    Are we frightened of knowing the truth? Or has there been so much doubt thrown on so many roach in recent years we're just fed up of hearing about it and most of us don't care one way or the other?

    I know if I was catching big roach I'd want to know if they were genuine or not, and I'm surprised that Angling Times appears not to be bothered.

    In no way does this make the captors of the roach(?) any better or worse as anglers, just that the true parentage and therefore the value of the fish, is in doubt.

    I reckon it's important we know for historical reasons, never mind anything else.

  4. #4
    Chris Bishop Guest


    I'll stick my neck out and say I doubt most of today's AT readers really care.

  5. #5
    Carp Angler Guest


    That's probably true Chris.
    They only seem to care about that weeks issue, then all the attention is on next weeks captures/issue.
    They seem to gloss over any history/facts/sacrifice etc etc, it's
    look at the picture
    look at the weight
    next picture

    Next weeks issue comes along and last weeks is long forgotten.....

    Are we rubbishing these fish because they are lake and not river roach?
    I know the pictures clearly show that they are hybrids but would we have even scrutinised them if they were from the Avon?

  6. #6
    Ron Clay Guest


    Because of my singular interest in roach, (they are my favourite species) I tend to scrutinise all pictures of roach in the angling press as well as in books. I certainly do not wish to rubbish stillwater roach. Most of my best have come from stillwaters. Of the many roach I have seen photographed from the Hants Avon, Dorset Stour etc, only one has to my eyes been supect. I have caught many roach bream and roach rudd hybrids in my life and I never run them down. They are the most beautiful fish. Roach bream hybrids fight harder than tench size for size and bream rudd hybrids are truly exquisite fish. But lets identify them and call them what they should be called.

  7. #7


    I've just read back through the whole of this thread to see where I'd missed someone 'rubbishing' these fish. And I can't find anything to suggest that.

    Like Ron, and most of the anglers I fish with in Ireland, where we've caught hundreds of hybrids, I love them. They really do fight harder than either of their true parents. They're great fish. In fact I held (and maybe I still do) the unofficial (obviously) British record for a roach x bream hybrid with a fish of over 8lb.

    But just like I want to know if I've caught a small chub or a gigantic dace, I also want to know if I've caught a roach, a bream, or a hybrid of the two. My interest is no less because the species may be difficult to identify.

    As for the centre of interest apparently being on lake roach rather than river roach, this is due to the fact that hybridisation is far more likely to occur in stillwater fish than river fish. Without going into great detail it's the nature of spawning in the two environments (current, spawning beds, etc) that makes the difference. This is why so few hybrids are found in rivers, and what few are found are probably a result of escapee livebaits and stock fish.

  8. #8
    Carp Angler Guest


    My mistake and poor choice of words.

    I was going to suggest the spawning areas for rivers against lake etc but was unsure of my facts.

  9. #9
    Chris Bishop Guest


    Presumably these are close to areas where lacklustre fishing journalism breeds.

  10. #10
    Paul Williams Guest


    Graham, i have caught plenty of roach/bream hybrids from the Severn and was just about to disagree with you on river hybrids but then something dawned on me! they have all come from the lower Severn,it crossed my mind that the conditions of the lower reaches offer the opportunity for hybridisation, i certainly can't remember catching many (if any) on the middle or upper reaches.

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