Right type of water, Not Genes!!!

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Alastair Rawlings

Guest
About why fish grow so big in some water's, personally I see it as
it's the water itself is responsible, not that some fish have special genes
or something. Nutritional value/ Trophic state P.H level, and Clarity all
can give rich feeding in the right waters. A good food chain basically.
Some waters grow big fish, others don't.
 
C

Carp Angler

Guest
How do you account for one off fish that came from the same stocking into the same water at the same time?

e.g. 20 carp ranging from 3 to 6lb, (there's a difference straight away) from a breeder, these would all have been from the same year class.
Put into a lake, within 5 years 15 of them are about 15lb, 3 are low 20's, 1 a mid 20 and 1 an upper 20.
I can probably give you about half a dozen instances of this.
Fish are like humans, they have an average size and growth rate, but throw up the occasional genetic abnormality.
 
P

Paul Williams

Guest
Alistair,
Whilst i agree that quality of life matters one hell of a lot i personally believe that a species can develop a "strain" of stronger fitter individuals.
My reasoning for this is that it is recognised in all animal pasttimes, pigeon fancies pay out good money to breed from good stock, breeds of dogs are selectivly bred, so i think that it has a part in the overall picture, if for instance some of those Linch hill roach prove to be true then that particular group of roach could definatly be discribed as a good strain!!
It is in my opinion a jigsaw that happens to fit together some of the time and sometimes we get lucky and find it just as the pieces all click together.
 
A

Alastair Rawlings

Guest
I knew that would prevoke a quick responce. I agree with you both, what I'm getting at is the water has to be of a high nutritional value to grow fish big in the first place. Rich waters like the upper great oues grow Barble well and big. Anglers baits only enhance the growing/weight even further.
 
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Alastair Rawlings

Guest
To Paul williams,
Personally I think Lynch hill Roach/Hybrids? Grow big because of the water they live in. Take fingerlings from Lynch Hill and stock them in a water with a lower trophic state and I bet my pike tackle they won't grow as big.That's from experience but not on that particular fisherie, but a simular situation.
 
C

Carp Angler

Guest
I see the point you are trying to make.

The best genetic bred fish available wont grow to any size in a water with low natural food.

Yes, the best genetic fish need good quality food in considerable amounts.
They also require the habitat that would allow them to flourish.
e.g. shallows, reeds, gravel etc etc
 
M

Malcolm Bason

Guest
"Fish are like humans, they have an average size and growth rate, but throw up the occasional genetic abnormality."

Hhmmm!!!???
 
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Alastair Rawlings

Guest
Malc,
Yes but only IF they live and feed right or more than right, eg. Arnie's off spring living in Sudan! Or Arnie's off spring living in the civilised world with loads of money.
 
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Malcolm Bason

Guest
I agree with you totally Alastair - I was just thinking of one or two humans that might fit that bill - LOL
 
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Alastair Rawlings

Guest
Very funny Graham, I'll have to go to the dentist now!!!!!!!
 
C

Carp Angler

Guest
Genetic abnormalities.......
Malc with one leg shorter than the other,
Paul with both legs shorter than anything,
Alistair with no teeth,
Graham with no money,
Sedge with no fish,
The Gay Emblem with those reels,
Barney Ribble with 3 chins

and me with everything..........
 
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Malcolm Bason

Guest
I like it Carp - could you please enlighten me re: the "Gay Emblem" and Barney Ribble"? Am I a bit thick or just slow?
 
GrahamM

GrahamM

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Alastair, not me honest. Other than resizing it the picture went up as you sent it. I'll have a go at brightening it up a bit and see if that gets you some teeth back.

It could be worse, ask Brummie or Carp.
 
GrahamM

GrahamM

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Alastair, hit the refresh button and you should be looking much brighter........and younger!
 
A

Alastair Rawlings

Guest
A classic example, albeit with pike, is when Trout water pike are moved to a coarse fisherie. A very rich water with more food added regulary ie stocked Trout. To a non stocked coarse fisherie, some of these coarse fisheries are rich in life, but still can't support a Trout water fed pike. Now, arguably Trout water pike don't seem to convert to coarse fish for there feeding very well! As in most rich fisheries there's an abundance of prey fish to eat. They seem not to adapt to feeding possibly on lower down coarse fish rather than on the top Trout? Or has the water got to be of such a high rich quality (most Trout res's are) to substain there weight or even grow more? I've done experiments myself the other way around, ie from a lower trophic state water to a higher one, here the pike flourished and in just 2 years after being introduced gained 11Ib's. So they can addapt that way but not the other, they can be moved up but not down. Let's take good old Arnie again (poor fella), and move this well fed and conditioned man to another country like the UK. All fine there Arnie will keep his shape as all he wants is around him. Now lets move him to again Suddan poor chap will wither away in under a year just like a moved Trout water Esox.
 
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Malcolm Bason

Guest
Thanks Carp - I just read the Larford thread from start to finish - very entertaining indeed! And I feel suitably enlighted.
 
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