Flies for coarse fish?

[no-one in particular]

I have been meaning to take up fly fishing for coarse fish for some time. had a £10 off offer from Ebay so I bought a fly rod from China for £16.99 with free postage so it cost me £6.99. Well, it looked good in the picture. I already have a rim-fly reel loaded with line which I picked up for a fiver. So far so good depending on the rod when it turns up. The thing that bothered me is its a 4 piece and it is only 9ft. Anyway, I am not looking to become a expert, just do some in the summer alongside my usual fishing.
What I would like is some advice on type of flies (dry or wet) for roach, rudd, chub, tench, carp etc if anyone can help and mullet as they will be a definite target.
And would it be best wet fly fishing and any advice how this is done; I have the basic casting skill having done it before but not sure the best way to wet fly fish for coarse fish. I will be mainly fishing very slow moving rivers and/or a canal-- Any help would be appreciated but particularly the type of flies to buy.....cheers.

 

[robertroach]

We used to catch mullet by accident sometimes in Christchurch Harbour when fly fishing for sea trout, so it is possible to catch them like this.
Mike Ladle seems to be an expert at this however. If you Google Mike Ladle's Diary and go back through the entries you find loads of info and photos about fly fishing for mullet with "maggot flies". At certain times you get loads of weed washed up on the high tide line. It gets infested by flies and the maggots come pouring out and washed back into the sea on a high tide. The mullet love them!

Even if you don't get round to fishing like this, it's interesting reading.

 

[greenie62]

....What I would like is some advice on type of flies (dry or wet) for roach, rudd, chub, tench, carp etc if anyone can help and mullet as they will be a definite target.....

Hi Mark,
I've had some success using dry flies on the local commercial in the evenings - mainly for carp, but picking-up roach, rudd, skimmers and even ide on occassions - the most successful fly being 'Hopper' patterns (10-18) - fished just in the surface film. If there's fish nosing round it but not taking - try a 1 foot 'draw' - which will often provoke a savage take - make sure there's no loose line tangling around you or your peg!
Other patterns known to catch are: Buzzers - with/without a CDC plume/hackle, Black Gnat (18-22), Gold-ribbed Hares Ear, Pheasant Tail Nymph, and Damsel Nymph (10-14).

On rivers I used to target Chub mainly with the good old-fashioned Wickams Fancy - this 'bushy' fly if well 'Ginked-up' is easy to keep your eye on even if fished on broken water. Similarly the Hoppers will work for dace and grayling, as will Hawthorn flies - particularly if they are hatching.

I daresay that there will be fellow fluff-chuckers out there who will sneer at the choice of flies, but - they've worked for me!

Tight Lines :thumbs:

 

[Graham Elliott 1]

No sneering here. Great choice.

Wll add two.

Daddy long legs (daddies) great for all especially chub. Likewise Mayfly.

And for carp and rudd an Appetizer fly. (White - flash of orange/green) fishing on the drop and slow retrieve.

And regarding the rod a 4 piece is fine and I prefer my 29.99 Leeda xl 7 weight over the Orvis £145!

 

[greenie62]

...Daddy long legs (daddies) great for all especially chub....

Nice one Graham,
Knew I'd forgotten something - Daddies! mg: Again - they work well on the still-waters as well - even when half-sunk!

Ooo - ooh - oooh! The other 'must have' is a Sedge pattern - works well in the evening when there's a bit of wind on the water to make it 'skate' around!
I wonder if this is what the Wickams is an imitation of mg:?

 

[floatfish]

Fishing dries in summer for Coarse fish, anything brown and fluffy tends to work. Size of hook/fly depends on what you are trying for. !
The wet version of most fly's mentioned above, fish down and across as team of two or three and feel for the take.

 

[Keith M]

The other 'must have' is a Sedge pattern - works well in the evening when there's a bit of wind on the water to make it 'skate' around!
I wonder if this is what the Wickams is an imitation of mg:?

I found this little bit of history on the Wickhams Fancy ( see link below)

Wickhams Fancy Caddis Sedge Wet Fly Trout Pattern

Keith

 

[barbelboi]

No sneering here. Great choice.

Wll add two.

Daddy long legs (daddies) great for all especially chub. Likewise Mayfly.

And for carp and rudd an Appetizer fly. (White - flash of orange/green) fishing on the drop and slow retrieve.

And regarding the rod a 4 piece is fine and I prefer my 29.99 Leeda xl 7 weight over the Orvis £145!

I used to find that daddies were also great for dace when they were 'in season'. The dace used to become so preoccupied on them that it was a waste of time using anything else...........

 

[robtherake]

Might be worth trawling a boot sale or two - I've picked up a couple of loaded fly cases for coppers. I've decided to use them this year, given the right opportunity, but with a controller and Avon rod, rather than a fly outfit. One of my competition wins was a nifty Turrall fly box and 50 flies, so it'd be a travesty if they just sat there looking pretty.

 

[no-one in particular]

I wasn't sure whether to post this on the general fishing thread, thought it might get overlooked so thanks for the replies. I have made a list of the flies suggested, I have got a tackle shop nearby that has a good stock so I should be able to get them. Its nice to have a bit of a start instead of buying blind. Its not a matter of best choice Greenie, the fact that these have worked helps me as a start up.

One venue is a canal about 3/4ft deep and about 30ft wide covered in weed, some very good Rudd in it. I have not seen any fish rise to flies here so I expect it will be something fished in the first 6 inches but I am not sure of what fly to try.
There are also Tench; I tried to catch a tench here conventional method last year and failed. Met a bloke last year who said he had plenty but they were all on the far bank by the reed beds. I know tench are not a fly fish but I wondered if anyone has caught tench on fly and what would be best fly. Again it would have to be something fished just under the surface or am I being to ambitious! Some Carp in here as well.

The river is deep in the middle but it has a weed bed in the margins which I am thinking of fishing just the other side of in about 6ft of water. Its very slow moving in the summer, Tench, Roach, a very few Carp, Chub and Mullet but no Rudd. I am thinking of something fished deep at about the 6ft but what or how I am not sure off yet. The Mullet can be anywhere but often swimming around near the surface all over the river in groups.

I will get the rod in about 2 weeks apparently. Its carbon and looked good enough for my purposes but I only noticed it was a 4 piece after I had bought it. I am used to seeing them as 2 piece but Graham says its OK so thats good. At least it will pack away nicely in the bag. It has only cost £7, cheap but if I really get into it I can always upgrade.
Quite looking forward to it, thanks for the help all.

---------- Post added at 08:24 ---------- Previous post was at 08:17 ----------

We used to catch mullet by accident sometimes in Christchurch Harbour when fly fishing for sea trout, so it is possible to catch them like this.
Mike Ladle seems to be an expert at this however. If you Google Mike Ladle's Diary and go back through the entries you find loads of info and photos about fly fishing for mullet with "maggot flies". At certain times you get loads of weed washed up on the high tide line. It gets infested by flies and the maggots come pouring out and washed back into the sea on a high tide. The mullet love them!

Even if you don't get round to fishing like this, it's interesting reading.

I live on the coast Rob and I see this in hot weather on the beach, the problem is its a wide open beach and spotting where or if the Mullet are close in feeding on them would be a bit hit and miss whereas in Christchurch harbor they are confined and easier to spot.
But this has got me thinking, a maggot on the fly, is this cheating, I have heard of this and it makes the fly more attractive I hear and probably frowned upon among the trout purists but coarse fish? And would an artificial maggot be a good idea? Not keen on it, rather catch a fish on fly only, more satisfying but if pushed for bites, would it be acceptable?

---------- Post added at 08:43 ---------- Previous post was at 08:24 ----------

I did fish these out of my pile of fishing junk Robrake which I bought some months ago from a junk shop, I think I only paid about 3 quid (bit of an unhealthy obsession, I canoot help it). However I have no idea what they are or if they will suit coarse species. If anyone has any ideas (the pics might not be clear enough) are they wet or dry flies?---

 

[mightyboosh]

Although I've caught perch, pike and dace on the fly, the only species I managed consistently was rudd. A small dry fly did the trick when the fish were clearly on the rise.

Got very close to catching a carp on a dry fly a few times. I really put the hours in, hooked them, but didn't land them. It made me realise that carp behaving naturally don't just hoover up what's on the surface, they hoover the surface and if there happens to be some food (or bait, or a fly) in the way, then that will get sucked in too.

Despite being a fly fisherman for a very long time, I do realise that it is quite a stupid, and generally ineffective way to fish:

 

[no-one in particular]

It certainly is Mighty, but it is one of the nicest ways to fish, no lugging heavy gear about, smelly baits to deal with. And a fish won on the fly is very worthy, even a humble Rudd.
Many years ago when I had a very stressful job I used to go chasing a few Chub on the fly after work, a nice half mile walk, a good pub at one end with a nice sausage & onion pie with all the trimmings and a pint of best bitter. Then a leisurely stroll back with belly full and the odd Chub caught if I was lucky. It was just the best tablet in the world for stress.

 

[robtherake]

[/COLOR]I did fish these out of my pile of fishing junk Robrake which I bought some months ago from a junk shop, I think I only paid about 3 quid (bit of an unhealthy obsession, I canoot help it). However I have no idea what they are or if they will suit coarse species. If anyone has any ideas (the pics might not be clear enough) are they wet or dry flies?---

Nice catch! I can't help with ID, though; I'm as clueless as you, bud.

 

[no-one in particular]

Rod turned up yesterday, its OK for the price although it was a different colour, brown not black but I think I prefer that. Feels nicely balanced with the reel on but yet to actually test it. Packs nicely into a short length, another bonus. Checked the line on the reel, it has yards of backing line on it and the fly line looks OK, quite thin, doubled tapered probably about right for coarse fish.
Got my landing net and other accessories already, a box of flies, yet some to buy of the suggested varieties; all kitted out for about 15 quid.
June the 16th, a wander along the canal first for about half a mile. An interesting bird place at the end of it, nesting terns and gulls, some Avocets, Marsh Harriers and the odd Hobby., a wander back and then a pint or six in the pub on the hill. Any fish would just be be a bonus. I will be right in the zone by then I reckon---astral plane 7...man...

 

[Jon Leckie]

Hi Mark

The flies look to be a mixture of Nymphs ( which fish under the surface) and dry flies, the picture quality makes identification difficult but i think i saw a Damsel fly nymph and a Mayfly nymph. the dry flies will stand up on their own on a table if you put them on it. if you hold them in the steam of a kettle it will straighten out any feathers that have been flattened by sitting in the box for a while

if you are thinking about Carp and Chub, you might want to look for a mixer fly (a dry fly shaped like dog biscuits ) and fish this amongst some dog biscuits.

if looking to fish under the surface, think about weighted versions of nymphs, these will sink more quickly - in my experience getting a fly down 6 feet will take some doing. gold head versions of the nymphs mentioned will sink better

you need to make sure that your rod and line are matched, the rod should have a weight rating on it (#6 for example) and the rod should be matched to a line of the same rating (#6 or 6 weight) i suspect that this will be particularly important with a cheaper rod.

hope this helps

jon

 

[ciprinus]

Despite being a fly fisherman for a very long time, I do realise that it is quite a stupid, and generally ineffective way to fish:

it only becomes stupid when like me you flick an imitation crust strait into the open maw of the lake monster with your 7wt.
its like a replay of ahab and moby all over again ,

on a side note, a quick goog will produce fly patterns for most species and y##tube will most likely provide a tying tutorial for you

---------- Post added at 08:48 ---------- Previous post was at 08:25 ----------

mark, here are a couple of webs sites to start you off, one thing they all have in common is the coarse fish on fly theme :thumbs:

The Rise of Coarse on Fly | Eat, Sleep, Fish

flyfishing for coarse fish – Turrall Fly Fishing – Blog

just two for now but if you want ready tied try Ebay :wh

just found this very interesting site if its carp your after
http://shop.peaksflyfishing.com/carp-flies-362-c.asp?gclid=CL-utZXp8ssCFcSRGwod7ZwDsw

and here is a blog that shows just how thrilling it can be, i remember a conversation i had with richard gardner who it turns out is quite the fly aficionado and he was quite willing to send me a couple of his own personal patterns that i have caught many carp on overtime.

http://gardnertackle.co.uk/2012/05/carp-fishing-difference/

happy fishing matey

 

[no-one in particular]

Hi Mark

The flies look to be a mixture of Nymphs ( which fish under the surface) and dry flies, the picture quality makes identification difficult but i think i saw a Damsel fly nymph and a Mayfly nymph. the dry flies will stand up on their own on a table if you put them on it. if you hold them in the steam of a kettle it will straighten out any feathers that have been flattened by sitting in the box for a while

if you are thinking about Carp and Chub, you might want to look for a mixer fly (a dry fly shaped like dog biscuits ) and fish this amongst some dog biscuits.

if looking to fish under the surface, think about weighted versions of nymphs, these will sink more quickly - in my experience getting a fly down 6 feet will take some doing. gold head versions of the nymphs mentioned will sink better

you need to make sure that your rod and line are matched, the rod should have a weight rating on it (#6 for example) and the rod should be matched to a line of the same rating (#6 or 6 weight) i suspect that this will be particularly important with a cheaper rod.

hope this helps

jon

That helps a lot Jon, thanks. I do not know the rating of the rod but it is carbon and looks well made, good reinforcing around the spigots. It looks a lightish rod and the line on the reel is quite thin at the thickest part so, might be a good enough match.

---------- Post added at 07:23 ---------- Previous post was at 07:17 ----------

it only becomes stupid when like me you flick an imitation crust strait into the open maw of the lake monster with your 7wt.
its like a replay of ahab and moby all over again ,

on a side note, a quick goog will produce fly patterns for most species and y##tube will most likely provide a tying tutorial for you

---------- Post added at 08:48 ---------- Previous post was at 08:25 ----------

mark, here are a couple of webs sites to start you off, one thing they all have in common is the coarse fish on fly theme :thumbs:

The Rise of Coarse on Fly | Eat, Sleep, Fish

flyfishing for coarse fish – Turrall Fly Fishing – Blog

just two for now but if you want ready tied try Ebay :wh

just found this very interesting site if its carp your after
Carp Flies

and here is a blog that shows just how thrilling it can be, i remember a conversation i had with richard gardner who it turns out is quite the fly aficionado and he was quite willing to send me a couple of his own personal patterns that i have caught many carp on overtime.

Carp fishing with a difference - Gardner Tackle

happy fishing matey

Thanks Ciprinus, had a quick scan and read at the websites, go back later for a proper read through. They look very helpful. carp will not be my main fish, the canal and the river have a few in them but not many. It may happen I will spot one and try a cast to them but, I don't think the rod and line will be suitable, maybe I will get some more gear when I get into it a bit. Mainly I think I will be trying for the rudd in the canal to start with, theres some very nice rudd in it and roach, some nymph maybe just under the surface as Jon suggested. Its very weedy and I think this may be the best at first.

 

[Christian bracket butwhy]

I found the book fly fishing for course fish in my local library and took a load of pictures of the flys mentioned for roach and rudd but there should be no reason you won't catch other species on them as well

 

[john step]

I have caught carp on a fly rod on Nash Bugs. They are meant for zigs but I couldnt catch any carp zigging with them.

They do catch carp very effectively on the surface though with a fly line.

 

[Aussie Bob]

There is a section on the FM fly fishing forum which includes threads about coarse species you might want to have a look through ...

Fly fishing for other species - Fly Fishing Forums

If there are perch about Magoo flys with the orange bead head can work well with short strips.