If commercials never existed

[rayner]

I don't know what all the fuss is about. The record match weight is 1500lb. There are 3 lakes there, two 50% silver/50% carp, one 30/70%. There are tench, perch, golden tench, roach, bream etc. Two of the lakes look quite pleasant, ones a bit open looking for me. There are the usual facilities, shop, toilets, parking etc. I would happily spend an afternoon there catching silver fish and small carp. I don't like big carp when I am fishing a mixed lake as they just smash you up. The point is I am not in a match, I would not be looking to fill 17 nets, in fact I wouldn't be using a net at all and I would be taking my time in relaxed pleasure fishing mode; if I just steadily caught good fish I don't see what is wrong with that. If I caught one every 15 mins which is doubtful that's only 24 fish in 6 hours and that could be a nice mixed bag. I don't disagree, it is probably over-stocked on at least one lake and that can be obscene but all in all and judging by the website it does not look a bad place to fish; worth a try in book. The point is If there is one lake with match anglers on it going hammer and tongs at it for 6 hours as they do, that's a long way from what i do as a pleasure angler and the result I want and they don't appear to have a match everyday, I bet there is a nice bit of mixed fishing to be had there on a quiet weekday in nice surroundings. And this is the case on most commercials on my past experience.

Are there any rules on fish stocking density/ do the RSPCA get involved, is it not cruel to stock fish over a certain density? They are wild creatures and there are rules for that I am sure, why not fish.

Do you know Mark there are quite a lot of decent posts on the forum which are quite interesting to me? Having said that I always enjoy reading your posts from the HDYG posts you make to threads like this one. It seems to me you have a more rounded fishing experience to most on the forum.
Some appear stuck in one mode which is fine by me, I'm certainly stuck in one mode in that I only fish the dreaded commercial, so it's easy to see I'm a one trick pony.
Your own range of different styles of fishing is plain to see. You'll fish for mullet to roach to carp and anything else that takes your fancy on a range of different types of fishery. You're a credit to the forum Mark.

Take the mention of the 17 nets and the catch, you have an easy to understand take on it. Not good to include any facts that would be too easy.
It would have helped if the size of fish caught were mentioned, I don't know but I doubt they were 1 or 2lb fish. It's not going to happen on too many fisheries, I'm not trying to justify the catch, I'd be interested to know how many fished I'd like to bet not every peg was taken. I suppose that would take away from the sensationalism of the post more like the tabloid journalism we get.
It was a big weight yes but had it been rammed into only a few nets would have made me roll my eyes keeping to net limits gives the fishery credit
To hear the usual suspects say what they do is to be expected, they prove what they know is limited.

 

[markcw]

Gary, some of those fish went to 14lb. The majority would be around 3lbs I think I read somewhere, the back up weights were in three figures.
There is a commercial not dar from me where its possible to do 30lb in less than 15mins, I got bored ,it was like hook a duck, the fish were on the surface with mouths open as if waiting to be fed.This was on my peg and three pegs either side. I like commercials but those where you have to work out how to catch them.I was brought up fishing canals in the early 60's, and was fishing adult matches on them at 14 , plus reservoirs such as Jumbles near Bolton. The canals were the Bridgewater, Shropshire iUnion and Trent and Mersey.

 

[no-one in particular]

Do you know Mark there are quite a lot of decent posts on the forum which are quite interesting to me? Having said that I always enjoy reading your posts from the HDYG posts you make to threads like this one. It seems to me you have a more rounded fishing experience to most on the forum.
Some appear stuck in one mode which is fine by me, I'm certainly stuck in one mode in that I only fish the dreaded commercial, so it's easy to see I'm a one trick pony.
Your own range of different styles of fishing is plain to see. You'll fish for mullet to roach to carp and anything else that takes your fancy on a range of different types of fishery. You're a credit to the forum Mark.

Take the mention of the 17 nets and the catch, you have an easy to understand take on it. Not good to include any facts that would be too easy.
It would have helped if the size of fish caught were mentioned, I don't know but I doubt they were 1 or 2lb fish. It's not going to happen on too many fisheries, I'm not trying to justify the catch, I'd be interested to know how many fished I'd like to bet not every peg was taken. I suppose that would take away from the sensationalism of the post more like the tabloid journalism we get.
It was a big weight yes but had it been rammed into only a few nets would have made me roll my eyes keeping to net limits gives the fishery credit
To hear the usual suspects say what they do is to be expected, they prove what they know is limited.

Thank you Rayner, very nice of you to say so, I thought I got on everyone's nerves. I just like fishing and trying out whats there, I wouldn't have taken up sea fishing but for moving to the coast or commercials either probably but the offer was there at the time. I have always been willing to give it a go; there is so much on offer these days and whatever it is the basics don't change; I fish for whatever suits my mood or my latest fad or interest..
Same with this water, it may be likely I wouldn't like it but if I lived near it I would have to try it to make sure. It looks nice enough and I wondered if this match was spread over all 3 lakes or just one. One of them has a fish sanctuary and is for juniors and novices with intuition thrown in if wanted. I don't think it can be all bad. You can only really see if you like something or somewhere by trying it out for yourself.

 

[no-one in particular]

Gary, some of those fish went to 14lb. The majority would be around 3lbs I think I read somewhere, the back up weights were in three figures.
There is a commercial not dar from me where its possible to do 30lb in less than 15mins, I got bored ,it was like hook a duck, the fish were on the surface with mouths open as if waiting to be fed.This was on my peg and three pegs either side. I like commercials but those where you have to work out how to catch them.I was brought up fishing canals in the early 60's, and was fishing adult matches on them at 14 , plus reservoirs such as Jumbles near Bolton. The canals were the Bridgewater, Shropshire iUnion and Trent and Mersey.

Where do you find these places Mark, I have never come across this in my life, it can't be normal surely.

 

[markcw]

Where do you find these places Mark, I have never come across this in my life, it can't be normal surely.

Mark, I first fished this place 15 years ago, it was good then, decent pegs, had to work for your fish, it got decent write ups in theangling press,I dont know what's happened to it, the pegs were sinking in parts, The other match pool on the place was the same from what I heard, The specimen lake was decent, I had a walk around it. The commercials I fished in the northwest were good,@tigger knows a few of them, not overstocked, but good weights can be had, I did nearly 60lb in a match in the last 2.5 hours, only because I thought outside the box, I would have done the ton if I had done what I did earlier.
I have done the ton on a club water pleasure fishing, floating bread on the pole at 16 metres, dobbing for carp, average weight of them was around 8lb.
At the moment I have had to revise the way I fish, I am doing more feeder fishing and pellet waggler fishing on the gravel pits near me.
I will be saving commercial fishing for when I go back upto northwest for the odd day, Or go to Tunnel Barn Farm.

 

[no-one in particular]

My local pier is the best commercial, toilets, cafe, fish and chips, pub, live music and only £5 a ticket. Tuition no problem, always a dozen people to tell you how to fish "unfortunately" and if you want difficult with snags it must be the ultimate. All that's missing is a few trees and any fish. Someone should put a net around it and stuff it full of cod and bass, it would be a sensation. Someone will do it one day, wonderful; I cant wait.

 

[no-one in particular]

Mark, I first fished this place 15 years ago, it was good then, decent pegs, had to work for your fish, it got decent write ups in theangling press,I dont know what's happened to it, the pegs were sinking in parts, The other match pool on the place was the same from what I heard, The specimen lake was decent, I had a walk around it. The commercials I fished in the northwest were good,@tigger knows a few of them, not overstocked, but good weights can be had, I did nearly 60lb in a match in the last 2.5 hours, only because I thought outside the box, I would have done the ton if I had done what I did earlier.
I have done the ton on a club water pleasure fishing, floating bread on the pole at 16 metres, dobbing for carp, average weight of them was around 8lb.
At the moment I have had to revise the way I fish, I am doing more feeder fishing and pellet waggler fishing on the gravel pits near me.
I will be saving commercial fishing for when I go back upto northwest for the odd day, Or go to Tunnel Barn Farm.

Do you think these sort of overstocked match type waters exist more up north than south? Maybe that's why I don't see so many, not a northern south divide thing, I am not looking to open that old chestnut, just wondered, match fishing was more popular there once as I understand it, so maybe the commercials are providing that to make up for it and getting the money and custom that way more than southern waters would. I have only explored the south east, maybe its just a different customer, not that I have not seen them, there are certainly more and more carp waters, too many, not because I am against them just enough of them already however; most of them I have seen are not the line em up fishing as you describe. In fact from memory I have only come across one line em upper and that is Wylands near Battle, that has one snake lake that is purely designed for match fishing stocked with F1,s and probably overstocked and underfed but that's the only place; even that has plenty of other ""natural"" lakes; not that I like it much, too busy, it is well known and I get what i want from lesser known places but I have been around quite a few commercials or say day tickets in the South East and apart from that one cannot think of any other. So maybe I just don't know the reality in other parts of the country.

 

[steve2]

There is a pond not far from me called Arrans lake that in 2016 set a 6 hour match record of 1514lbs 2nd was 1341 lbs 6th place was only 600 lbs. I think you could say that this place was over stocked at that time. I haven't fished here for a few years don't know if it still open. There are others that produce large catch but none that are anything like this.

 

[peterjg]

Steve2, I don't suppose that there many commercials that are so obviously grossly overstocked? It would appear that commercials are very popular and if people like going to those sort of venues then why not, it is their prerogative. We are fortunate if we have the choice to go elsewhere.

 

[steve2]

I have nothing against commercials I fish them all the time I just don’t fish what I consider hole in the ground commercials. The ones I fish are called club waters or syndicates.

 

[rob48]

I fish club (and association) waters only. They are operated for the benefit of the members and I doubt if some of the usage justifies the rental costs.

 

[sam vimes]

I don't suppose that there many commercials that are so obviously grossly overstocked?

Yet again, it comes back to definitions. Some folks obviously deem any day ticket water to be a commercial. Things that I would call a commercial are all on similar lines. I know of three waters between the Humber and Scottish border (east of the Pennines) that I would call out and out commies, The Oaks (Sessay), Woodlands (Carlton Minniott) and Angel Of The North (Gateshead). Two of these are being bitched about with regards to recent big match weights. There are a smattering of lesser commies on a smaller scale and a tiny number of club waters that ape true commies. For me, if it's not capable of decent sized matches and regular big match weights, it isn't actually a commie.

For some folks, it seems that anything that isn't a river or canal is a commercial. It's no wonder some folks get so defensive. If I were to get sneery about commies, I'd be meaning something like the three fisheries listed. Many would get all huffy because they take it that I've just slagged off their favourite day ticket farm pond.

 

[Peter Jacobs]

The way I look at ‘commercial fisheries’ is in two categories.

Firstly the out and out ‘match’ fishery that is typically over stocked and used as a match venue.

Then the more ‘pleasure fishery’ that has a diverse stock of fish that are not overstocked and caught at least once a day.

I avoid the match venue unless we have a fish in but will use the pleasure venue as there is safe parking, decent toilets, an on site cafe and tackle shop.

As one advances in years these thing have to be taken into account.

 

[tigger]

I have no problems with purpose buit/ dug commercial fisheries whatsoever.

I do have a probem with people getting their hands on old established waters containing a natural head of fish which have been thriving on neglect for many years. These old waters usually contain tench, crucians, rudd, roach, perch etc. The new owners begine decimating the trees and undergrowth, removing all the natural features, weads etc. Then they introduce huge numbers of carp of one kind or another, not to mention the other invasive species they insist on having.

 

[rayner]

I'm astonished at the size of weights in some matches. They're a far cry from any waters I fish locally.
On occasion fisheries close to my home match weights vary from anything up to 100lb depending if venue experts are fishing. Generally, 30 to 50 poundish are normally the winning weights. Fisheries are definitely commercials but with a lesser stocking policy that some fisheries hold. There are times when anglers fish for silverfish just because carp won't play.
I now can understand why some refuse to fish such waters, I think anglers around here would struggle to catch such a big weight as the ones mentioned.
This is Yorkshire, the thought of spending the amount that would be needed for bait would prevent most from even attempting to catch such a weight.
The hook a duck aspect that is obvious by the weights on offer would not be to my liking at all. Fortunately, it's a far cry from commercials around here, we at least have to fish in a more refined way to tempt a few fish than just casting a bait.

 

[markcw]

Do you think these sort of overstocked match type waters exist more up north than south? Maybe that's why I don't see so many, not a northern south divide thing, I am not looking to open that old chestnut, just wondered, match fishing was more popular there once as I understand it, so maybe the commercials are providing that to make up for it and getting the money and custom that way more than southern waters would. I have only explored the south east, maybe its just a different customer, not that I have not seen them, there are certainly more and more carp waters, too many, not because I am against them just enough of them already however; most of them I have seen are not the line em up fishing as you describe. In fact from memory I have only come across one line em upper and that is Wylands near Battle, that has one snake lake that is purely designed for match fishing stocked with F1,s and probably overstocked and underfed but that's the only place; even that has plenty of other ""natural"" lakes; not that I like it much, too busy, it is well known and I get what i want from lesser known places but I have been around quite a few commercials or say day tickets in the South East and apart from that one cannot think of any other. So maybe I just don't know the reality in other parts of the country.

I would say there seems to be more commercials in the north west than around Oxford area, Alders Farm in Milton Keynes is capable of throwing up 3 figure weights, but I would think they are around the 150lb mark. Similar to Tunnel Barn Farm.That is a 3 figure water,
I fished the Oaks and Woodlands some years ago, big weights were coming out then especially Woodlands, but I would say these are to venue regulars,
As for the one near me, it is possible he thinned the specimen lake out of small stuff and put them in the match lakes, Its getting that way I am preferring natural venues, such as the canal, even though it seems easy compared to the bigger canals in northwest, river thames I have yet to fish but it looks good, and Newlands fishery I am a member of have gravel pits, I wouldnt mind having another go at Lake Semerwater in Yorkshire, long range feeder fishing when I was last there.

 

[no-one in particular]

Do you think these places are more designed for pole anglers, uniform width-just right for a pole, uniform sized fish-nothing to stretch the pole beyond its capabilities, uniform depth- just right for pole rigs, it seems they are ideally suited to pole fishing, anything in that?
Is this their target match pole anglers or families and dads with kids who want some easy come and go safe fishing in over stocked ponds, and the intrepid anglers they are not much bothered about as they are more likely to inhabit fishing clubs anyway. Perhaps it all has its place in the grand scheme.

 

[markcw]

A lot of commercial fisheries have silvers only lakes and specimen lakes , Google Cudmore fishery specimen lake,
I fish one that has large perch in it along with the usual silvers and carp, this has and island down the middle with large open ends, it is possible to cast to the island as well as as fish a pole up to it, The pool behind it has more silvers than carp in it, and is capable of doing 30lb in the winter,
I have taken my grandkids on both commercials and club waters, their attitude is if they catch, they catch, at least they are out doing something they enjoy. My grandson will rather fish rod and line either float or feeder sometimes than fish the pole.
I think the sooner people who dont generally fish commercials get the idea out of their heads that any Tom Rick or Harry regardless of ability can rock up on one and catch over 100lb of fish , there will be less of a negative attitude about them.

 

[markcw]

A lot of commercial fisheries have silvers only lakes and specimen lakes , Google Cudmore fishery specimen lake,
I fish one that has large perch in it along with the usual silvers and carp, this has and island down the middle with large open ends, it is possible to cast to the island as well as as fish a pole up to it, The pool behind it has more silvers than carp in it, and is capable of doing 30lb in the winter,
I have taken my grandkids on both commercials and club waters, there attitude is if they catch, they catch, at least they are out doing something they enjoy. My grandson will rather fish rod and line either float or feeder sometimes than fish the pole.
I think the sooner people who dont generally fish commercials get the idea out of their heads that any Tom **** or Harry regardless of ability can rock up on one and catch over 100lb of fish , there will be less of a negative attitude about them.

 

[mikench]

Partridge Lakes near Warrington charge £8 a day, I think, but they have a members only lake which costs £300 pa. it’s not big, or attractive and I’ve no idea what it fishes like. I suppose that’s less than £1 a day but I’d be bored within a week.

I’m glad commies exist as I can stick, usually, to club waters where there are only a handful of other anglers.