Speed fishing

[Budgie Burgess]

competeing in a series of evening matchs that last three and half hours.Average of 8lb required to win.Been playing around with a short whip and snatching small rudd/roach/bleak of the surface.Can do around 6lb.Any input on this technique ie rigs that dont tangle and groundbait mixes?Also considering artificial hook bait to speed things up any sugestions?

 

[Bryan Baron 2]

Never tried this kind of fishing never really appealled. A thought on artificials as hook baits Would there boyancy not be a problem on the whip. I have used them on a ledger set up and when float fishing for Tench but that was using the laying on methord.
A tip to keeping the rigs from tangling is to side cast as you would using a stick float on the river.

Hope this helps.

 

[Shrek]

Saw Ian Heaps use this method very effectively.

He used bread on the hook and liquidised bread as feed but preparation was very thorough.

His hook bait was two slices of bread, lightly toasted then rolled very flat, almost paper thin. He then proceeded to cut these into tiny squares and put them in a small box.

The liquidised bread was then prepared, but made into very fine crumbs. At the water, he then made this in a sloppy mix, producing a nice cloud from the thumb nail amount he introduced every cast.

His rig was a very light 4x16 canal float, usign styl weights to minimise line bites.

He was fishing a canal and had a fish every cast, mainly roach. Can't remember how much he ended up with, but it was a nice bag of fish.

Might be worth giving this a try, but I'd practice first before using the method in a match though.

 

[Peter Jacobs]

Budgie,

I have just finished writing an article on whip fishing but need a few pictures to go with it before submitting to Graham.

Let me know if you are interested and I'll e-mail you an advanced copy, okay?

 

[GrahamM]

Nice one Peter, I'll look forward to seeing it.

 

[Phil M]

Budgie, squatts as feed and pinkies for hookbaits are all I use for 'snatching'.
3 or 4 mtr whip 0-10 line straight through to a barbless 22.
I use 2 inch pieces of clear plastic tube (old crystal wagglers), plugged both ends with clear silicone and fixed to the line with three float rubbers,at about 2 feet from the hook.
Mucilin the line below the float, but not the last 4 inches, you are effectively then fishing only 4 inches deep.
'Slap' the rig on the surface and feed a pinch of squatts each cast, watch the greased section of line tightening, rather than wait for the float to skim along the surface.
Swing each fish in and unhook by shaking the fish off into the keepnet whilst holding the line just above the hook.
Have your keepnet between your legs if sitting, or at waist height if wading.
I've done a thousand bleak in five hours so it's quite a good method for building up a small fish weight.

 

[Peter Jacobs]

Quote:
"Swing each fish in and unhook by shaking the fish off into the keepnet whilst holding the line just above the hook"

I personally don't agree with this comment at all.
I don't believe that it is good for the fish and neither does it save much time, even in a match situation.
Having unhooked the fish you still have to "touch-up" the hook bait, and especially so if using pinkie as opposed to maggot.

 

[Phil M]

Yes Peter but you don't have to touch the fish with a dry hand.
You can catch up to 5 bleak on a single pinkie which is much more fish friendly.

 

[Budgie Burgess]

Thanks for the replies so far.With regards to the artificial bait I was thinking more along the lines of a bit of red rubber or one of these new artificial casters.Purely to speed things up.I am framing in every match using this technique but feel that there is still a lot of room for improvement.Most worrying is the amount of fish that are dropping off,some whilst being swung in but most just as they are breaking the surface,any ideas? ie would a bigger or smaller hook help?softer/stiffer flick tip?or is it simpley down to technique.Still not happy about getting a good cloud that stays up in the water ,will try the liquidised bread though.My local shops dont sell any of the Sensas or similar surface/bleak mixes that I have used in the past.
Phil M,have used the aproach you describe but with the hook length "crinkled" (even tried a short length of braid).Whilst living in France I noticed the locals used a different method (ultra light float fished shallow as opposed to on the drop) and this seemed even better.Interested to hear your views on fish dropping off.

 

[Phil M]

Budgie, you can fish all types of rigs with a whip, the one I described can be fished shallower than any float rig if thats what's needed.

A modification of my rig and to give you even more options, is to fish with a small piece of floating putty on the line, below the plastic tube, which you can slide up or down to alter the depth the hook is at.

If its liquidized bread feed, the fish go for, add powdered baby milk to it, which creates a cloud that hangs in the water.

I have an extra large keepnet head for snatching that catches most of my drop offs, but I do wear a wetted, plastic apron from around my neck down into the keepnet,which act as a slide/chute to direct the fish into the net.

Old tougher, maggots/pinkies, make the best hookers as its often possible to catch 5/6 fish on one single bait, even if its damaged.

I also insert the hook up the length of the maggot/pinkie, as this helps you to hit more bites.

 

[Peter Jacobs]

Budgie,

Whereabouts are you located that you cannot get Sensas Record 515, or Sensas Surface?

I use a "big top" which is a very wide diameter insert net for the keepnet. I think mine was supplied by Keenets, although not totally certain.

You could try a slightly larger hook but thread the (old) maggot up the shank, as if hooking a worm.

hope this helps.

 

[Budgie Burgess]

Where did yoy get your "big top" from Peter? Im in Kent and have tried several shops.
My main problem with fish dropping of is just as they break the surface any ideas?

 

[Peter Jacobs]

Budgie,

If I remember correctly I got mine direct from Keenets but then at the time I was part owner of a little tackle import and sales company in Norway, so it was a trade deal.

I take it that these fish are small(ish) Roach, Rudd and Bleak?
If so, then maybe a slightly bigger hook (whisker barb) could solve the problem?

 

[Peter Jacobs]

Budgie,

If you live in Kent is there not a decent Sensas distributor near to you?

I just did a check on the Sensas web site and they appear to still sell both Surface and Sensas 3000 Ablettes (Bleak) and the soupy 3000 ablettes as well, which are all excellent mixes.

If you have a problem then try getting in touch with K.C. Angling in Sutton, Surrey as they are (I believe) the main importers for the South East area.

 

[Budgie Burgess]

Thanks Peter.I have used the Ablette grounbaits you mention whilst living in France(Did you know they fish commercially for bleak!)they certainly keep a good cloud in the water.Will have to have a ring round.Have tried a lot of variations in hook size but not tried any barbed yet.Even though this might slow things down a bit the pay off of not having so many drop off would certainly make up for it.Read an interesting article on bleak bashing on a Finnish site what basicly reccomended less haste= more speed!
Will have to look at making a "big top" Have seen nets with the over size tops but the idea of one that isnt attached to the main keepnet but just sits inside interests me.Any pictures or info on how it fits etc would be apreciated.

 

[Peter Jacobs]

Budgie,

I will try to take a few pictures this coming weekend and let you have them.
I work in Holland so I am only home every second weekend.

Short whip fishing IMHO has nothing to do with speed and everything to do with rhythm.
The better the rhythm you can get into the quicker you will catch.
I've sent you an e-mail with some more information.

Some of the Scandinavians are real masters at short (and long) whip fishing. A friend of mine held the Norwegian record at 34 kilos of Bleak in a 4 hour evening match on the Nitelva River. Mind you, most of those bleak averaged 2 ounces or more.
My best in the same matches was 24 kilos and at the end of the match my fingers were virtually "frozen" to the whip.

Using a whisker barb will increase the time taken to unhook, but if it avoids the drop-offs, then overall you are maybe not loosing anything.
Difficult to judge really, but if the confidence in the method grows then so will the catches.

I didn't know that the French fish commercially for Bleak, are they used in a culinary way like Whitebait, or simply for animal feed?

I hope some of this helps.

 

[Danny Lancaster]

I read a recent article in Matchfishing mag by one of the top italians (Mario something..)

They put their pinkies in the fridge for a few days and cover them with marble dust to harden them up. To hook them they "thread" the pinkie up the shank of the hook, leaving the bend and point exposed. Hook the pinkie from the head end also. Apparently you should be able to hook around 20-30 bleak on the same pinkie, but always check for any damage after each fish of course.

 

[Budgie Burgess]

Thanks again.Yes Peter they fry them whole like whitebait!
Danny Ive been keeping some maggots for hookers for as long as I can to try and toughen them up.Anyone know of any other ways other than marble dust(as I doubt that it would be easy to get hold of!)?

 

[Bryan Baron 2]

Try the local grave headstone cutters they have to sweep up should have some marble dust.

Would other stone dust do the same job as there are loads of stone masons around.

 

[Danny Lancaster]

Try Here Budgie:

Finch William (Building Materials) Ltd.
Appley Lane North
Appley Bridge
Wigan
Lancs.

01257 252830

Ring round your local builders merchants they should be able to put you onto some. People use it to make grouts, plaster mouldings etc. so it shouldn't be too hard to find.