sis the roach
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i dont know if its just me this season not caught as many roach or dace i fish the trent most but the derwent and the dove as been the same
decline in rivers
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sam vimes
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I try not to be too quick to jump to conclusions with regards to rivers.
I've had a pretty poor summer on my local. The dace which were increasing in number and size over the last few years seem to have thinned out significantly. The grayling are a bit patchy and I've barely seen a chub since the closed season, even the small stuff which seemed to be on the increase previously. I know a fair number of barbel were stocked (not tiddlers either), but these seem to have vanished. I had anticipated seeing a few hang around near one of the stocking points, but it doesn't seem to have happened. The minnows and brown trout seem to be doing well enough though.
I'll wait to see what the next few months bring before being particularly concerned. Early season is often be pretty poor, especially without consistent rain. I doubt that the weather has helped in my area. In the first few weeks of the season, the river was showing its bones, and had been for several weeks before. Then, for two or three weeks, it was up and down like a *****'s drawers. Since then, it back to showing its bones.
I've had a pretty poor summer on my local. The dace which were increasing in number and size over the last few years seem to have thinned out significantly. The grayling are a bit patchy and I've barely seen a chub since the closed season, even the small stuff which seemed to be on the increase previously. I know a fair number of barbel were stocked (not tiddlers either), but these seem to have vanished. I had anticipated seeing a few hang around near one of the stocking points, but it doesn't seem to have happened. The minnows and brown trout seem to be doing well enough though.
I'll wait to see what the next few months bring before being particularly concerned. Early season is often be pretty poor, especially without consistent rain. I doubt that the weather has helped in my area. In the first few weeks of the season, the river was showing its bones, and had been for several weeks before. Then, for two or three weeks, it was up and down like a *****'s drawers. Since then, it back to showing its bones.
I fish the Trent regularly at sawley had some cracking catches of roach this year trotting caster and feeding hemp, going tomorrow feeder fishing for the big bream had 70lbs plus when I last went , day after down pour ,so come on rain bring it on 
flightliner
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Not been many times to the Trent this year but when I have (on the tidal) it's been superb roach fishing with hemp n tares.
robcourt82
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I agree with Sam, the Thames last year was full of roach, every time I went I was catching 15/20 even 30lb / of roach. This year its been a struggle to catch 10lb. However a fortnight ago at Walton I had a massive bag of real good stamp roach, well over 30lb of them, a week later I had 6lb! The fish are there our rivers just aren't in the condition for them to feed properly very often.
barbelboi
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The rivers, streams and backwaters here have plenty of roach, dace and chub - especially if you take the trouble to look for them.
The water has been gin clear so it's not difficult finding them...
The water has been gin clear so it's not difficult finding them...
barbelboi
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An after thought in respect of my post above - I've been carrying out a lot of dace fishing this season and one thing is evident. If you put in the effort and find the fish in June they will still generally be in the same places now, and probably at least until the middle of November.
jimlad
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I've not seen any marked change on the tees, other than the gradual decline in barbel over the last ten years. There still seems to be plenty of chub on the bits I fish, grayling populations fluctuate over time but as Chris said above, I don't get to concerned with poorer years these days, these things tend to come in cycles.
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The Runner
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Said it before I know, but the Thames is for the most part at least as good as I can ever remember it. OK the bigger chub are very thin on the ground these days and it's a long time since I heard of a barbel on the middle reaches but the roach fishing is far better than it used to be, and has been for a few years now.
The usual four of us had our fisherman's night out in the pub last Wednesday and as a conversation piece I had dug out my old "Captain's Card" from an AT Winter League at Dorchester, Shillingford and Benson in October almost exactly thirty years ago. Our team came 5th from 11 despite having two blanks and only three of the twelve of us breaking a pound (and one of them was with a single barbel); I had come 4th of the 11 in my section with an ounce and three quarters, about 6 pegs down from where I was yesterday in our club match at Dorchester. The lowest weight yesterday was 4-2...
The usual four of us had our fisherman's night out in the pub last Wednesday and as a conversation piece I had dug out my old "Captain's Card" from an AT Winter League at Dorchester, Shillingford and Benson in October almost exactly thirty years ago. Our team came 5th from 11 despite having two blanks and only three of the twelve of us breaking a pound (and one of them was with a single barbel); I had come 4th of the 11 in my section with an ounce and three quarters, about 6 pegs down from where I was yesterday in our club match at Dorchester. The lowest weight yesterday was 4-2...
Mark Wintle
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I found a Winter League result from November 1979 yesterday on a very clear Thames at Reading. I could remember being top weight with 5 minutes to go out of over 70 anglers on Reading Promenade with 0-5-8 (4 ruffe and a perch) beaten in the dying seconds by a 7oz chublet but hadn't realised that three 2lb chub took each of the first three places, with just 8oz 6th overall (out of 108 anglers).
The following year at Wallingford my team of 12 weighed in 3-12 in one Winter League though I had 3-0-8 of that, not as bad as the following season where on one Dorset Stour winter league our team weighed in three dace for 9oz and won on points.
barbelboi
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I remember the LAA river matches of the 60's - the Thames was usually hard work with everyone looking forward to when Theale on the Kennet came round to bag up. The only problem was the steel rule 'rule' where each species had to be a certain length before you could put in in the keep net - you could end up catching 30-40 fish and only a couple could be kept for weighing.....
I think this year has been a bit thinner for silverfish on the venues that I've fished regularly (Warks Avon and Upper Great Ouse). I can see the same story from the likes of the Riverfest results. The Thames around Oxford seems to have bucked the trend, although I know that it's not been in every peg.
I put this down to a cold late spring and a lack of water in the rivers over the summer.
There are also some longer and medium term trends ...... Dace have been up and down like yo-yos on my wider circuit over the last 15 years - at different points in the cycle on different rivers as well.
Chub numbers have been going down since the early 90s pretty much everywhere I fish ...... but the size has undoubtedly increased.
Barbel the same - there are still plenty to be caught on the Avon, but much harder on the Gt Ouse.
I tend to stick to more prolific venues these days, but would agree that winter match returns (as few as they are) on rivers are significantly better than 30 years ago. Equally - we don't tend to experience winter in the same way.
One small anomlay ios that I've struggled to catch anything other than micro dace on either ouse or avon this year .... until the last two weeks - where I've suddenly caught reasonable quantities of proper stamp on both rivers. Not of interest to most on here (only 4 or 5 to the pound) but perhaps they've been there all summer?
I put this down to a cold late spring and a lack of water in the rivers over the summer.
There are also some longer and medium term trends ...... Dace have been up and down like yo-yos on my wider circuit over the last 15 years - at different points in the cycle on different rivers as well.
Chub numbers have been going down since the early 90s pretty much everywhere I fish ...... but the size has undoubtedly increased.
Barbel the same - there are still plenty to be caught on the Avon, but much harder on the Gt Ouse.
I tend to stick to more prolific venues these days, but would agree that winter match returns (as few as they are) on rivers are significantly better than 30 years ago. Equally - we don't tend to experience winter in the same way.
One small anomlay ios that I've struggled to catch anything other than micro dace on either ouse or avon this year .... until the last two weeks - where I've suddenly caught reasonable quantities of proper stamp on both rivers. Not of interest to most on here (only 4 or 5 to the pound) but perhaps they've been there all summer?
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I think regarding the tees the river changed dramatically in the early 80s when a fuel tank poured diesel into the river up at Middleton teesdale.
I remember walking the banks and seeing miles and miles of dead fish,trout dace and salmon washed up on the bank.
A court case took place and the river restocked. But its never recoverd above broken scar dam. The coarse fish were hit most with a big increase in the population of grayling .
Now you can catch grayling right up to high force which was never known in the past.
It's a similar story regarding the swale with the pollution at Brompton in the 1970s
I remember walking the banks and seeing miles and miles of dead fish,trout dace and salmon washed up on the bank.
A court case took place and the river restocked. But its never recoverd above broken scar dam. The coarse fish were hit most with a big increase in the population of grayling .
Now you can catch grayling right up to high force which was never known in the past.
It's a similar story regarding the swale with the pollution at Brompton in the 1970s
sam vimes
Well-known member
I'm just a smidge too young to know about that. What happened and what are the differences you perceive?
NyB
Hi Sam
It happen at the Cadbury Schweppes factory at Brompton. It's no longer there.
It practically wiped the river out down stream
Before the pollution the river around ellerton was full of chub and barbel they averaged about 2 to 3 lb only, but the river was full of them .
Lads could catch 20 to 30 in a day match or pleasure fishing. If you get chance the older match lads with tell you all about it mate. It's never recovered imo.
Hi Sam
It happen at the Cadbury Schweppes factory at Brompton. It's no longer there.
It practically wiped the river out down stream
Before the pollution the river around ellerton was full of chub and barbel they averaged about 2 to 3 lb only, but the river was full of them .
Lads could catch 20 to 30 in a day match or pleasure fishing. If you get chance the older match lads with tell you all about it mate. It's never recovered imo.
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sam vimes
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I do know plenty of the older locals, not that there's much of a match scene these days. There's also not many of the fellas I knew of in the 80s that are still actively fishing. There's been phases since the seventies when barbel and chub numbers have been far better from Richmond down to Langton. However, with the barbel, it's invariably followed a stocking. Unfortunately, they seem to lurk for a year or two, at most, then the bulk vanish downstream. For whatever reason, the barbel and chub just don't seem to want to hang around, other than in a few isolated pockets. We tend to see them round the opening of the season, when they come upstream to spawn. After that, they mostly disappear, though I have to concede that I rarely fish specifically for them. Far too much like hard work for me. My suspicion is that it has more to do with steadily reducing flow rates, stupidly quick run offs and poor invertebrate life than it does a pollution incident forty odd years ago.
Yes those are all contributing factors to the current state of the river quality.
Don't know if Richmond still have the old cups and match results Sam but it would be interesting reading comparing results of old to current pleasure fishing on the river.
As I recall Richmond when they had the matches used to have some good barbel fishing back then.
Don't know if Richmond still have the old cups and match results Sam but it would be interesting reading comparing results of old to current pleasure fishing on the river.
As I recall Richmond when they had the matches used to have some good barbel fishing back then.
sam vimes
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Not sure about results, but one of the committee still has all of the old trophies, possibly bar one that was never handed back.
I think that one of the biggest snags I see in comparing old match results to modern pleasure nets is that the standard, and number, of anglers is just not comparable. Likewise with general pleasure anglers. I see very few on our water that I think are much good. All that can be relied on, to an extent, is the general impressions of those that have been regulars for a decent amount of time. My own impressions are that there are nowhere near the numbers of grayling as there were in the eighties. Even as a daft youngster, with limited skill, I recall battering 20-50 grayling from single swims. I still fish the same areas now. 15-20 grayling from a single swim is a damned good day. The dace just seem to fluctuate wildly. One season leaves me fairly optimistic, the next nonplussed by their paucity.
With regards to the barbel. Up to around five years ago, decent anglers, that really put the effort in, were still getting pretty good results, size wise, if not numbers. If there's anyone really going for the barbel on our water now, they are hiding it pretty well and not saying a word. The last time I'm aware of significant numbers of barbel being caught on our waters was somewhere around 85-88. It followed a good stocking by the river authority. Even as daft kids we were catching quite a few 1-4lb fish for a year or two. I was rather hopeful for a repeat this year after the RSPS stocked a lot of barbel in the closed season. Sadly, as yet, I've not seen a sign of them, let alone actually catching one.
unfortunately, I'd very much doubt that we have much more than five members that will fish the river twelve times a year or more. Even on a weekend, it's quite feasible that one member will have the entire Richmond controlled river entirely to themselves. Even when it's busy an individual can have several miles of bank to call their own. I'd love to see a really good angler come and demonstrate to me how inept I am. Unless I take part in, or observe, the Upper Swale Champs (if they ever use our water again), I can't see it happening anytime soon.