Twiddle or spin ?

[Gary Knowles]

On Saturday me and my mate were making up traces on the bank whilst we were fishing. I prefer to spin whilst my mate twiddles (no sarcastic comments please). Anyway I got to thinking which method do the majority prefer.

I prefer spinning as the main wire (central) remains fixed whilst the tail end wrapps around. when twiddling the main wire twists and this makes me think it may weaken it slightly.

Any thoughts ?

 

[GrahamM]

Neither, I much prefer to crimp. I've heard all the stories about twisting being more reliable than crimping but I've yet to see a pike lost through crimping by me or any of my mates, and we've been crimping traces for 10 years or more. I guess it's like anything else, you have to do it properly or, like anything else, it'll let you down.

 

[Chris Bishop]

I've started using 49-stranded wires most of the time so I use knotless knots around both trebles as it's a lot quicker and it stops them flapping about, which I always think can bounce fish off.

Take eight or 10 turns round the shank of the hook, pull it tight and cover it in shrink tube. It can't slip as long as coils don't come undone, as the wire is doubled around the shank first.

To attach the swivel to the top, try passing a loop through the eye, then pulling it back on itself so it forms a half hitch before crimping. The knot (called a lark's head apparently...) takes most of the strain and all the crimp does is keeps the loose end down.

I used crimps for ages before that. I used to spin them up with forceps but I was never 100 per cent confident in them.

 

[Philip Inzani]

Gary I know what you mean about wondering if twiddling weakend the wire. I have to say I also had some concern about crimping doing it as well by crushing it.

When I first started making my own traces I used to crimp then I was shown a trick with a pair of forceps where you hang them off the tag end and sort of wheel them round the wire and then I got myself a twiddling stick and have used that since on the bottom treble and then knotless knot the upper one. I cannot say I have ever lost a fish to any of them due to the connection failing but I always have a niggling doubt for some reason.

However I may well take a leaf out of Chris's book and start knotting them both, it just seems easier.

 

[Davy North]

I must admit I have lost a fish with a crimp pulling through. I alway's had use crimps, and litraly pulled half a tree of swims with out the crimp failing.

However this particular crimp was from a new batch, and I don't know if they were duff, but as soon as I hit the run the wire pulled through. Fortunatly at the time I was using a single barbless hook, so I hope the fish shed it fairly quickly.

When I checked the other traces I'd made with the new batch of crimps they all give way with a fair amount of presure! Needless to say from now on I'll be spinning or twiddling.

Has anyone else had any bother with crimps in this way?

 

[Ron Clay]

I've never tried crimps, maybe I should. I usually heat up the wire with a lighter before twisting it. Maybe that's not a good idea?

 

[Carp Angler]

I use crimps on all my sea mono traces without any problems at all.
It's all down to knowing how much you can crush it.

 

[Ron Clay]

Carp Angler

Do you need a special tool to squeeze the crimp? As piking season is just around the corner I have to stock up with hooks, lines and trace wire shortly. I'll also be spending a week in the fens in Oct after Zs and pike.

Got a huge packet of sprats by the way at Asda yesturday for ?1.50. The poor girl at the check out took one look at them and started to reach!! They had to find somone with a less delicate stomach. It's surprising how sensitive some people are.

 

[Carp Angler]

I've just got some crimping pliers, similar to the electricians ones and these pose no problems at all.

I also used these when I made up my eel traces and I've never experienced any problems at all.
I wouldn't be confident twiddling them, but that's probably because I've never done it.

 

[Rob Brownfield]

I honestly dont think the wire is crushed when u crimp...i actually think its where the crimp and the trace material meets that is the potential weak spot. I have had one crimped trace go...and I am convinced its where the crimp had caused an angle with the wire.

There is an easy test to to. Make up 10 traces with crimps squeezed as hard as u can...10 with crimps just gently squeezed and 10 twisted. Hook them into a lump of wood and pull to your hearts content.

I have done this several times and its always the twisted traces that break or slip causing bad kinking. The gently squeezed traces sometimes slip, but i have never had a problem with the hard squeezed ones.

I tend to pass the line through the crimp, then the hook, back through the crimp again, then bend over the tag end of the wire for 8-10 mm and slip it back inside the crimp...then snuggle up everything. This stops everything pulling free as its a pretty tight fit. It also stops a wee tag of sharp wire poking out from the crimp where u cut it off.

 

[GrahamM]

That's exactly how I crimp my traces and as I said, I've never had a problem. Crimp them tight. I use the Fox crimping tool, but previously used a plain old electrician's crimper.

I've done some tests similar to Robs and although very few traces made with any method (done properly) have failed under reasonable force, when pulled to destruction it has always been the twiddled and twisted traces that have broken first - always at the twist or twiddle. The crimped ones usually broke on a straight length.

 

[Philip Inzani]

Interesting stuff, anyone done comparison tests on the knotted ones compared to those crimped, twisted or twiddled ?

 

[Chris Bishop]

...which surely shows that used properly, crimps are as strong as the wire itself.

If you use them in conjunction with the larks head knot (see Budgie's trace making feature...), all you're asking the crimp to do is keep the loose ends neat and provide a bit of extra security.

I used to spin traces up with forceps, but I'm sure it weakened the wire, because in those days I did occasionally have them bust on fish, which clearly isn't acceptable.

I even had one go once when I was unhooking a fish. I asked my mate to pull the trace tight so I could go in through the gills and turn the hooks out, the fish shook its head and the wire went.

When this did happen, it was usually on the twisted portion of the wire.

I also read this really funny thing once about a certain person making traces in front of the telly. He spun the forceps round the trace, they slipped off the wire and went straight through the TV screen.

Try these knotless knots - ie the way most people attach the top hook - to fix both hooks. Then you only have to worry about the swivel or ring at the top of the trace which you tie your line to.

I've never used special crimpers, just an ordinary pair of pliers.

There are different sizes of crimps and it's worth looking out one which will just take both strands of wire, rather than have a wider one flopping about.

Drennan do them in three sizes - try small for Fox East Twist 30lb and other seven-strands, medium for Soft Steel, Caliber Wonderwire 25 and 40lb, ET 49-strand etc.

On subject of ET 49-strand it's a bit thicker than normal wire but incredibly supple and strong as barge rope. Anyone else tried it..? You can get it for ?2.50 a spool if you shop around as well.

 

[Rob Brownfield]

Crimps...hmmm..?3+ for 25 Drennen etc....?3 for 100 from a sea fishing shop. Same thing or u can get shorter ones. Never had a problem with them. Try Dave Dowcra or Tonys Tackle.

Oooops..another freshwater rip off..lol

 

[Andy Doughty]

I made up 3 or 4 of each type of trace at work a few weeks ago. The crimped ones always went at the joint of the crimp/trace wire. The twisted ones just undone themselves. Knotless-knoted hooks broke the trace wire or straightened the hooks. They also pulled a 6 foot work bench across the hangar floor. My choice is knotless-knoted hooks and a larks head/crimped swivel, this is what I am most comfortable with.

 

[Chris Bishop]

I'll send a trace to Graham so he can put some pics up. I've never broken one of those knotless knot traces, the hooks usually straighten, although I always use 25 or 30lb wire now.

I've been mucking about with a little ring on the tag end of the bottom knot. I wondered if it would make getting the hooks out of zander, which can be a bit fiddly sometimes, a lot easier.

You'd just need something like a stick with a hook on the end, catch the ring and pull the hooks free backwards rather than trying to turn them out.

Andy, this'll make you laugh. Rick rings me up last Friday night and says where are you going tomorrow - I fancy fishing the drains. I think about a bit of the North Level for some reason, say we could give it a try, then I talk him out of it because the drains are covered in weed and not worth diddly squat till it's gone.

We went to the Ouse, Rick had his first zander (you should have seen his face...), a low double pike and a jack. I lost a good fish and blanked.

Couple of days later I thought about that bit of the North Level again and thought I'd give it a go on the off-chance because I always thought it could do a good fish.

Got out there and the whole drain's deserted apart from a couple of Yorkshire lads fishing exactly where I was going to.

Must be a reason, I tell myself, so I'll go and have a banter with them.

Turns out their mate was there the week before and he had a 30.

 

[Andy Doughty]

A little oval rig-ring on the end of the trace? You could crimp it below the knotless-knot (It will not be carrying any load from the fish during the fight) and you could use it to put pop-up balls on, starlights, little bits of red plastic, tie red wool round it, all sorts.
Great idea, I`ll knock some up.

 

[Chris Bishop]

I just twisted them on with a few turns and buried it against the shank of the bottom hook when I take the wire round the shank etc.

You could do allsorts with it. I was just trying to get the hooks out quicker - ie invent something which could slip in the loop and pull the hooks straight out backwards.

They'd come out of the fish's mouth backwards too, meaning they wouldn't get caught on anything when you took them out.

 

[Gary Knowles]

Amazing resposes - just shows how everyone has their own methods. I only changed from cripming myself through laziness. I find spinning traces on the bank is much quicker and easier than fiddling about with crimps.

I have been using the knotless knot for tying single hooks to wire when eel fishing, covered with silicon tubing these are as strong as anything I've come accross.

Looks like its all down to confidence again.

 

[Chris Bishop]

Peter Waller gave me a pile of old Pikelines mags going back to the Mids-80s at the weekend. This was quite a hot debate 20 years ago, when Drennan first brought out their slim crimps. Peter Drennan actually wrote a piece outlining how crimps should be used, ie pinched in three places to corrugate the wire without fraying it. Tests they had carried out independently showed this was as strong as the wire - as long as you didn't damage the wire, obviously.

This was just passing the wire once through the eye of the hook or swivel, not using the lark's head thingy which actually locks tight if you pull it and bed the wire down.