Lives or Deads

[The Seeker of Truth & Justice]

Eric Edwards mentioned that deadbaits catch bigger pike than livebaits. If this is right, and I dont doubt eric, he knows beteer than me, then why do so many pike anglers want to use livebait? that doesn't mean Ive got anthing against livebaiting, not at all, i use maggots and worms.

 

[Chris Bishop]

Lives produce more takes than just about anything else on the right day.

Problem is they don't discriminate and you pick up a lot of small fish, even on big baits.

 

[Gary Knowles]

Cyril,

Deads catch more fish than lives because more people use them - simple as that !

Fish a live rod against a deadbait rod all season and i have little doubt which will produce the most and largest fish...

 

[Steve Burke]

What's best will vary from day to day, but overall I find that both livebaits and lures catch many more pike than deadbaits. The main reason is that with deadbaits you get fewer jacks.

This means that the average size is higher with deadbaits.

However, it DOESN'T mean that livebaits and lures aren't as good as deadbaits for big fish. It's probably just that deadbaits filter out some of the smaller fish.

I'd add that I'm now convinced that big lures get a higher average size of pike than smaller lures. In fact I've changed my mind on this over the years. Being disabled I can't handle the continual casting of big lures. However, an analysis of catches has shown that with medium-sized lures I catch more pike than friends, but they get more twenty pounders than I do.

However, the advantage is that my 3-5 inch lures pick up a lot more specimen perch!

 

[David Will]

Steve on a water near me which I can troll I have had no success on Kwikfish , it does contain big Perch which I catch on Mepps.Any advice on how to fish Kwikfish would be welcome.Mine are the 5 inch silver version(as per Perchfishers book). I ask as I think I catch on Mepps when they are feeding hard but feel I am missing out on dormant fish.

 

[Steve Burke]

There could be a multitude of reasons, but the one that immediately springs to mind is the depth that the perch are feeding at. Most 5" Kwikfish run at about 18 to 20 feet when trolled on .35mm line. It may just be that the perch are feeding deeper or, more importantly, shallower than this. If the latter you could let out less line, which will mean that the lure runs shallower. To go deeper you'd have to use lead, but I then normally switch to a different lure.

Alternatively, it could be that the perch are pre-occupied with smaller prey that the Mepps imitates.

One other point is that the colder the weather, the bigger the lure (or bait for that matter) that I find most successful, whether it be trolling lures or bait fishing for small river chub. This is contrary to all the old books, but something that for 20 years I've had absolutely no doubt about.

 

[Eric Edwards]

What I actually said was "The average weight of fish to deadbaits is far higher" which is quite different to saying that deadbaits catch bigger pike than livebaits.
In fact, the ultimate size of pike that can be caught on both methods is the same but you can spend so much time and energy catching livebaits and dealing with jacks that the big fish are missed. I'll give you an example;
One spot I used to fish on the Yorkshire Ouse held so many jacks that a livebait never lasted longer than two minutes before being taken (honestly!). I used livebaits there extensively and never caught a fish over ten pounds.
Using deadbaits in the same spot, I had quite a few big pike up to 27lbs. It was much, much slower but I got the fish I was after. Had I stuck to livebaits, I would have spent more time catching them than the pike!

As for big lures - ah well, that's a different thread.

Eric

 

[David Will]

Steve thans for reply , will persevere.

 

[Rob Brownfield]

Eddie Turners list of huge fish is impressive...nearly all of them being taken on live baits....except the 2 biggest!I certainly found that in a river, livebaits always outfished deads for numbers of fish...but one trick i used was to mount two sprats on a treble...and use a live gudgeon inbetween them...picked up some big fish taht way from the Lea.

 

[Steve Burke]

A very good point, Eric! I wasn't disagreeing with you, just hoping to clarify the issue.

It's the same by the way with perch, with (freshwater) deads usually avoiding the smaller fish. Big perch are often very spooky so catching small ones on livebaits can also scare the specimens.

 

[Joe Burton]

i would like to say that pike go for fish that are injured or bleeding, pike often go for a quick meal therefore deadbait is the way to fish!!

 

[John Howard]

Part of the answer lies in the water being fished. One water I fish in 21/2 years I have had 1 dropped run to legered deadbait. Float fished deads will take fish but livebaits score every time.
Another water responded well to deads for several years then it was found that lives would catch where deads didnt. I feel that deads are popular due to the ease of purchase and that after a water has been heavily fished for several years the pike wise up then lives come in to their own.

 

[Andy Doughty]

Depends a lot on how the bait is fished.
Try a more sensitive set-up. Drop-off alarms are good but I think that bobbins and optonics let you 'see' what is happening to a legered dead a lot better.
Laying on is also a superb way of float fishing for pike.

 

[Chris Bishop]

A lot depends on the water. If it's regularly match-fished, the pike become accustomed to finding dead and dying fish in the margins.

In lightly-fished waters, most prey is probably live and most injured fish probably end up chomped before they croak it.

Heavily-pike fished waters usually get quite a lot of discarded bait thrown in because people bring it defrosted and don't take it home.

There have also been some quite interesting observations made about air pressure and preferred live/dead prey.

 

[Sam Ross]

i dont really do much pike fishing , i usually only in the winter. but from my experience , i have found that a live tench does the job!.

 

[PikeDude]

Why not try using 2 rods: Deadbait & Livebait set-ups will work well together 1 will give off scent and 1 will give off vibration - best of both worlds!!!

 

[Charlie Bettell]

This can depend on how much food is in the water you pike fish, and how active/lethargic the pike are in that warer. Lethargic pike, over 20lb, tend to prefer big deads on the waters that I fish.

 

[Ian grant]

Hi,everybody,
it's my first time on the predetor forum,any way here's my thoughts on the subject.obviously big pike in general are older than the smaller fish-females at any rate,
and are therefore most likely,more lethargic,and less willing to go chasing small fish,even though they can,
doesn't mean that they,will,and i think won't unless they'r
hunger demands it,but like any wild creature,will always take the easy option-least energy output for maximum nutrition- a rule that governs all wld creatures-pike are no exeption,i think often they'll sit and gaurd a dead fish
to 'save it for later'which is why it's always worth twitching the bait now and again,-not just to get it noticed
which it might,but if the pike is just sitting looking at it
it wil probably provoke a take because it thinks it might get away,all this is not to say that a live bait won't catch
a big pike they definately will,or that a dead bait won't catch a small jack,because they will,but i firmly subsribe to the theory of deads catching more big pike than lives

 

[James stewart]

For the bigger fish I would go for dead bait.
Drifted lives fished deep , close to the bottom always an exciting method. (If its allowed).
Live bait (for me at least) will usually pick up mostly jacks....big fish almost always (foe me at least) fall to deads.
I usually fish Smelt , Mac. Tails ,Pollen , Perch and eel sections.
My main problem is that i find it very difficult to kill eels and perch...both are great fish in their own rights and super preds.
I woul agree that in a river live baits can be very productive...but if travelling they are a real pain to transport....a bucket of water is heavy and cumbersome.
A good alternative wobbled deads....excellent !